Bushcraft trip to Finland.
- Thread starter Chris the Cat
- Start date
Even more so with the weak pound. But next time drink at home, then go to the bars
Well, you've got to be a good guest haven't you, and there was a slightly odd music festival going on. Have The Freza made it big yet (sorry bit OT).
I hear you, I hear you
Next time you can take a "mäyräkoira":
http://images.google.com/images?q=m...ent=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi
Don't know the band, the older stuff is more my scene.
forestwalker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Finnish men have traditional hatred(different levels though) against anything swedish,be it hockey team or sausage,language or anything,as we were under swedens command for ages.Swedish females on the otherhand,attract us but theyre too posh and picky for us hillbillies
Ahh, the past-political issues. It is my understanding that language is a geographical issue as well, with some regions in the SW being much more "swedish" than the rest. And then there i Åland...
But there is a lot of cultural baggage (the UK people can think of Scotland and Ireland vs England to begin to understand the reasons for the conflicts).
Yes the rch ones that liv eon sw & åland,the ones who can speak percetly well Finnish but they just wont
.Last june i was going to Norrtälje,in sweden,across åland,and in small harbour place called Eckerö,we were stopping to have few coffees and some grub,i heard the two sales persons speaking flawless finnish before i went to counter,then they changed into swedish and wouldnt say a word back,in finnish although i spoke only finnish to them,because i noticed that this was just another cocky trick I,on my behalf,i would move to åland or to sweden any day for rest of my life,ive been spenging loads of time in my life in both places and i really like them.
I am much interested in the countries and people and culture. I am planning to visit these places one day.
But looking into the map... they are all so close together geographically and weather and all that - I would have thought they are quite similar.
What would you have said most significant differences bewteen them in culture, people and place in general? Languages? - They all sound same to me. Pardon my ignorance.
But looking into the map... they are all so close together geographically and weather and all that - I would have thought they are quite similar.
What would you have said most significant differences bewteen them in culture, people and place in general? Languages? - They all sound same to me.
Pardon my ignorance. Yes the rch ones that liv eon sw & åland,the ones who can speak percetly well Finnish but they just wont
I,on my behalf,i would move to åland or to sweden any day for rest of my life,ive been spenging loads of time in my life in both places and i really like them.
What would you have said most significant differences bewteen them in culture, people and place in general? Languages? - They all sound same to me.
Your question is easy to answer but perhaps difficult to answer well
If somone asked the difference between English and Scottish cultures, the responder would have a similar problem Um, one lot make their menfolk wear skirts and eat offal boiled up in a sheeps stomach, and um, the other lot will start their weekend by listening to God Save the Queen on the BBC, then play a game each of football and cricket, before heading off for fish & chips But back to Finland and Sweden:
- Swedish language is very similar to Norwegian and Danish. Finnish is totally different, nearest to Estonian and distantly related to Hungarian.
- Both countries follow the Nordic social model as regards taxation, wealth distribution, welfare state, control from government (google for more info)
- Swedish culture is more "multicultural" than Finland, with non-European immigrants numbering in the 100s of thousands, in Finland this is in the 10s of thousands.
- Finland has twice as many lakes as Sweden, but you probably wouldn't notice
- Finns are stereotypically shy and cold unless drunk.
- Immigrants in Sweden complain that the Swedes are shy and cold unless drunk
- Finns stereotypically dislike small talk with strangers. Not much different to many other nationalities..
- Finland was crippled by World War Two, only recently did they make their final installment for war reparation payments to Russia. The Swedish government chose not to get Sweden involved in the war, and in the aftermath, Sweden was certainly well placed to pick up the lucrative contracts for "post-war rebuilding of European infrastructure". This fact certainly explains some of ther differences between the two countries, e.g. in my opinion Finland only recently became a relatively wealthy (first world?) country, Sweden was already there a long time ago. The whole war thing also explains some attitudes from some Finns towards Swedes. Some people have long memories, more so among those Finns whose family homes now lie in the land ceded to Russia at the end of WW2.
- Finland has the largest reserve army in the EU (* source below), which is especially interesting considering there are only 5.3 million people here.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union
- In my own experience, I prefer the bars and restaurants of Sweden
forestwalker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
To add to Susis historical and cultural recap. There is a long and interlinked history of Sweden and Finland. Back when we (Sweden) was a major power in Europe Finland was (oftan) a part of Sweden, spending much of the rest of the time being part of Russia. During WW2 Sweden did not step in on the side of Finland (biggish debate at the time), but there was a number of Swedish volunteers fighting on the side of the Finns.
I think Finland is a fascinating country.
The national epic, Kalevala, was derived from oral tradition and is often compared to the Iliad and the Oddysey.
Tolkien was utterly fascinated by the Finnish language. It's intersting that Hindi and Urdu are much closer to English (and easier to learn) than Finnish is.
The history of Finland in WW2 is little known here, but makes fascinating reading. The Soviet Union invaded from the east, and the Red Army suffered huge losses from fighting a very small but very skilled Finnish army. There was much sympathy in the UK for the Finns, but the political situation was of course complex, and things got very messy.
Perhaps most relevant to bushcraft is the Finnish concept of 'Sisu'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu
The national epic, Kalevala, was derived from oral tradition and is often compared to the Iliad and the Oddysey.
Tolkien was utterly fascinated by the Finnish language. It's intersting that Hindi and Urdu are much closer to English (and easier to learn) than Finnish is.
The history of Finland in WW2 is little known here, but makes fascinating reading. The Soviet Union invaded from the east, and the Red Army suffered huge losses from fighting a very small but very skilled Finnish army. There was much sympathy in the UK for the Finns, but the political situation was of course complex, and things got very messy.
Perhaps most relevant to bushcraft is the Finnish concept of 'Sisu'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu
I am much interested in the countries and people and culture. I am planning to visit these places one day.
But looking into the map... they are all so close together geographically and weather and all that - I would have thought they are quite similar.
What would you have said most significant differences bewteen them in culture, people and place in general? Languages? - They all sound same to me.
Well swedish and norwegians do speak very similar language and they come along just fine,but finnish is a different thing,swedes dont understand us at all,not do the norwegians.Our languages roots are from different compass directions i hear
-We did pay our "debt" to russians a long ago i´d say,and thanks to our military system,and quite big army we´ll be glad to wellcome them back on our borderlines once again.The system that we have,that makes our army look big,is only thanks to the fact that every mans gotta go to service his duty in the army,or choose to do civil service(in hospitals,schools,etc) or if he wont agree to that,and hes totally against armed service&military,then the chaps goin to jail for some time.I do support going to army to anyone,and the army is very relaxed and not tough at all nowadays,but still theres guys that choose not to grab the assault rifle,but i sure respect the ones that choose the jail.
forestwalker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
We used to have the same (I spent 10 months in Boden, in northern Sweden courtesy of the Swidish Army), and I like the system for many reasons. It is, or course, questionable if it can produce a competent modern soldier (which as a rather high skill occupation). And I agree with PKRL; even if I don't *understand* them, I do respect the "living with the consequences of your convictions" aspect of the ones that chose to go to jail back when we did the same thing as the Finns still do (we've pretty much dismanteled our system).
so is the finnish army like national service we used to have in the UK or is it a conscript type army like the chinese?
Due to language barried i dont know what youre talkin about sorry
but when guys are adults in eyes of law(18) they are called in,to serve in army,but you can do it as voluntary too at age of 17(as i did),and then tey are selected to different cores,some go to navy,some get trained as rangers,some get trained to blow horns in army bands etc.The service last about an year at max,which aint bad at all.Ive served,i was very pleased and id regret hardly,if i would have choosed not to go to army,its once-in-a-lifetime thing to most of us,unless you join to different voluntary groups that train themselves and get invited to armys several training camps(as i do).
We used to have this attitude(that i myself strongly respect) if guy hasnt gone thru army,then his propably no good for any real men´s job,as its about the last place where kids grow to men,learn to tie their shoes and sew on a button without mommys help,and your room buddies do make end to one whos still sucking his thumbs at night.Nowadays many parents dont grow&teach their kids at all,so guys are way too posh and lazy and need some yelling and discipline id say,since world aint living in mtv-fantasy.
But hey,im bit old school any way,and everyone has freedom to choose and i try to respect anyones decisions as long as its not about drugs and crime.
This goes way off topic,i see
To the ones that desire about cabins and skidoos,i suggest you pick up dates that are NOT at the same dates when finnish folk have their winter vacations from schools and jobs,as if you rent anything in"season" its far more expensive than during "off-season".This goes if youre looking for luxury cabins and services,in most cases.But if youre more do-it-yourself,then its a lot cheaper to do things,and sleep in modest old timer-cabins.Skidoos (in yuppie populated "ski-party-trash around & consume"ski resort places)are usually about 150 euros a day( 5-8 hrs) and you have to return em to rental place with filled tanks too.But theres ways to get those a lot cheaper too,for half the price.If youre doing more bushcraft oriented trip,and you are after cabin that still has some feeling of the older simplified days,its cheaper too.Who the heck wants to rent a cabin with jumbo lcd screens and bath tubs anyway
?.In most cases,if youre trying to book yourself a D-I-Y trip in internet,from finland,its bit more complicated,as the business is mostly run for those seeking for luxury and easy living,with more money than skills,and the "click & pay" systems dont offer so much for bushcrafters at all,which is sad but thats how the world turns.But you can send emails to many places and give then a list,of what youre looking for and ask for their interests to serve your needs.
I know various places for modest hikers and can help you too to book & translate if thats any help.
http://www.paliskunnat.fi/poromatkailu/porotilatornensis/startter.htm
(this company is owned by real sami gy who i know,he offers very fair priced services from skidoos to cabins,reindeer food and such)
http://www.kopara.fi/in_english/
http://www.tosilappi.fi/TosiLappi/In_English/Home.iw3
(more info about enontekiö-district,thats about the real deal as lapland )
http://www.kilpisjarvi.org/index_en.htm
http://www.luontoon.fi/page.asp?Section=5778
http://www.luontoon.fi/page.asp?Section=5770
http://www.luontoon.fi/page.asp?Section=5540
If youre into museums,and into lapland & sami culture,this is the one place to go,i visit it few times a year without getting bored:
http://www.arktikum.fi/en/
http://www.luontoon.fi/default.asp?Section=4973
http://www.luontoon.fi/page.asp?Section=5418
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sounds like our national service in the old days of the UK. To be fair conscription and national service are much the same thing.
interesting that you still have to serve and dont get a choice, cheers, its funny how we all live so near but are so different
interesting that you still have to serve and dont get a choice, cheers, its funny how we all live so near but are so different
