I think it'd be a good idea to have something up there as an introduction, sort of up beside the rules or in a FAQ or something. Of course there will be arguments about the contents for months 
Cheers,
Alan
Cheers,
Alan
Bushcraft too popular?
- Thread starter stuart f
- Start date
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Nobody jumping down your throat, but if you "leave no trace", and you've been on your
own, thereby setting a good example, how the flump does anybody know you've been
there, and abided by our unwritten rules.???
Surely unless someone takes some kind of reponsibility, and who better than members of this Forum taking the lead...???
(before anybody jumps down MY throat, I know there are quite a few instructors
here....
) Obviously those with childers will do their bit, but how about taking acouple of your kids' mates along.
I'm only trying to make suggestions here....
You seem dead keen on the idea of using meets to educate young folk but regional meets are often more of a social occasion for the forum members. They have no insurance, CRB checks or any of the modern palava that would be required for such an excercise.
Personaly I would be unlikely to attend a meet where there were invited groups that required control. I already shy away from meets where there are large numbers attending, not being a particularly social person.
Also there's usually a fair amount of equipment brought to meets for others to try out. I normaly have a car load of archery kit and boats which just lies around for anyone who might fancy a try. Supervision is non-existant, trust is implicit and it's a good way to play. I've tried out various tools, equipment, boats, etc which others have left out in the same manner.
So, in my view....
...yes please.
As to a leaflet or sticky post - it's a great idea but if it's targeting members here, the majority of folk don't need targeted.
...and as Chainsaw says, who decideds what goes in it? I've met with derision bordering on contempt on this forum for suggesting that non-interference is a better policy that leave-no-trace.
As others have said, it's a numbers game. There are more people wild camping these days(round here anyway) so there is more evidence of them. The "unwritten rules" are written pretty clearly in the Access Code and they are being ignored on a regular basis.
Personaly I would be unlikely to attend a meet where there were invited groups that required control. I already shy away from meets where there are large numbers attending, not being a particularly social person.
Also there's usually a fair amount of equipment brought to meets for others to try out. I normaly have a car load of archery kit and boats which just lies around for anyone who might fancy a try. Supervision is non-existant, trust is implicit and it's a good way to play. I've tried out various tools, equipment, boats, etc which others have left out in the same manner.
So, in my view....
Or am I being too much of a "perfectionist", and members want to keep things to themselves???
...yes please
.As to a leaflet or sticky post - it's a great idea but if it's targeting members here, the majority of folk don't need targeted.
...and as Chainsaw says, who decideds what goes in it? I've met with derision bordering on contempt on this forum for suggesting that non-interference is a better policy that leave-no-trace.
As others have said, it's a numbers game. There are more people wild camping these days(round here anyway) so there is more evidence of them. The "unwritten rules" are written pretty clearly in the Access Code and they are being ignored on a regular basis
.
Of course its not the frequent locals on here we'd be targeting with such a sticky. Its something all newcomer's to the community could do with a 2-5min read on, about the basic and generic ethics most of us try to stick to on here (regards LNT or just general camp tidying up).
I dont see why... 'who decides what goes in it!?' should be such an issue. Its not like basic cleaning and tidying up of your camp is a controversial thing and there are plenty of people on here with the ability to write a good small guide on it. It dosent need to be too long at all, it could contain just a few pictures if needed at all.
Infact, I wish now that BCUK had video-streaming capabilities, I think they're might be plans for it. But a little item like this that could be done in a sticky, could probably be better done in a video just 2-4mins long. Some people enjoy making videos about what they enjoy and im sure someone would happily make a video demonstrating LNT practices etc. It would be lovely to see the likes of a sticky-video, I think people who find such basic tutorials or guides enjoyable to watch and tbh I think it would get taken in by more than a sticky-readme.
Welcome to my day
There are people who care and people who dont, an no amount of education will change them. It is much better to try and instill a good understanding from a youger age as possible, but frankly i find your p#####g in the wind with most of them as people just dont seem to care. As for bushcraft becoming too popular, like every FASHION it comes and goes, some will stick with it, most wont. With me, it's part of life, it's part of my job, i have always had it.
LNT should be instilled from birth, but thats down to who you are as an individual, and where you sit in relation to the world around you. If your an inner city chav, with absolutely no connection to nature or wildlife then it wont be in your soul to bin your litter, or take your beer cans an barbie home. Last week i was in court, a dog fouling incident, someone failed to clean up after there dog. Harsh treatment ! i was told by other members of the visiting public, It's not murder !, but when they tramp it into there cars, or there kids roll in it they come looking for me ! I really think it's down to modern disconnected lifestyles, we dont belong anymore.
Mark
Welcome to my day
Completely unrelated to this thread, but if you want a good laugh have a look on YouTube or the original website for The Chaser's War on Everything. If you don't know, this is an Australian satirical TV program, but clips from the show are available for download or on-line viewing outside Australia.
They do a brilliant character, The Citizens' Infringement Officer, who hands out fines for things like pretentious baby names, way-out hairstyles, silly personalised car numberplates, and many more. Rangerman might find people's reactions to these hoax fines amusing.
I think we need a bit of humour on BCUK to help balance some of the heavy (though very relevant) threads at the moment.
Geoff
Some articles on How To Leave No Trace on the main site perhaps? Split into different topics like walking, camping, cooking, perhaps. Or maybe not. I don't know.
This actually exists, it's called Camping! No, seriously, If i wanted to live in a tent, on a field full of short grass and packed with other brightly coloured tents and adequate toilet facilities, convieniently located between the shower block and the camp shop, then i would go camping and be a member of Camping UK and post on that forum.
I chose to 'scraft. I chose to go into the back of beyond, hitch up my tarp or hammock, dig a fire pit and have a damned fire. It gives me warmth, light, i can cook on it, have a brew or simply sit round it with others and sing, yarn, shoot the s**t, do anything i want. I defy anyone to honestly have a similar experience around an MSR pocket rocket!
I tell you what though. I don't cut tree's down, i burn only what is on the floor or dead standing. I take bag's in with me so i can remove my recycling and rubbish (is it just me but the more recycling i have the less rubbish i have!). I don't damage the tree's with my hammock or tarp. I don't make stone circles to blacken with fire. I fill in my fire pit after ensuring the fire is out. I even sprinkle leaves around just to make absolutely sure! When i leave my site, i thank nature for providing for me by not leaving anything that would compromise her. Integrity and credibility, be true to nature as well as yourself.
If you want to make no impact, live in a tent drink water, eat grass and be cold. Live on a campsite if you wish, but i believe that having a campfire, where permissable, is integral to Bushcraft, it is my right. with rights come responsibilities. It is MY responsibility to leave no trace and that is what i will continue to do. It is the resposibility of EVERYONE. If they will not be educated, then a pointy stick might be in order!
even a simple before and after picture would do, there are better ones around, stewart posted a good one on his earlier link but even;
before:
after:
would help,
Cheers,
Alan
before:
after:
would help,
Cheers,
Alan
Organised campsites are a bit too much like Tenko for my liking, and like everyone here, I like to have a fire - especially at this time of year. There are times and places when a fire is not such a good idea - either because of fire risk, or because the loss of dead wood from the environment is an issue - for example on some loch islands, or because it is not legal, or the environment too pristine or delicate. I think everyone here is likely to weigh up whether or not a fire is appropriate. Sometimes it won't be.
But, of course, this is preaching to the converted. The bonfires of the uneducated make more impact than the skilfully managed fire. To paraphrase the Indian saying:
'Bushcrafter make small fire, sit close. Chav make big fire, stand far away.'
But, of course, this is preaching to the converted. The bonfires of the uneducated make more impact than the skilfully managed fire. To paraphrase the Indian saying:
'Bushcrafter make small fire, sit close. Chav make big fire, stand far away.'
That will be from the same book as ' Do not judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shell suit!'
Hi all,
This is something I have seen here in Australia for many years, here it stems from the idea of every Aussie is a bushman due to our cultural roots, but this is far from the truth, here young bucks go out and set up a camp for the weekend, burn everything in sight and destroy the very thing that drew them to the location in the first place.
Here in Australia it got so bad at one point that now you are unable to practice a lot of the things that would be classed as bushcraft, (fire lighting, plant food / medicine use, wild harvesting, brush shelter construction, etc, etc...) all of these things are illegal here on public land, if you want to do this and stay in good stead with the law you must find a patch of private land and a good natured land owner, I would hate to see this happen else where...
As for ethics:
1) Leave no trace
2) Use natural selection as your guide
3) take only what you need
4) Keep your camp in perspective; do you really need a fire that big? Do you really need to have a clearing that big?
5) Return the site to the same condition you found it in or better if you are using another's site.
These are just some of the things I take into account when I am out in the Bush, and they are the golden rules I enforce vigorously when I go out with youth groups or even friends for a weekend camp out...
Bushcraft is a great hobby, it can bring you closer to the world we live in and has a lot to offer to any who are interested, but in the practice of Bushcraft we all need to help regulate the practice, to lead by example and to correct things that we see that are wrong or dangerous.
I know I am probably preaching to the converted here but it makes me so angry when I think that the simple act of respecting our natural resources is so low on some peoples list of things to do when out in the bush, I am not saying we should become the Bushcraft Police but just try to educate the public better when we are out there enjoying our chosen hobby.
Well thats my two cents, Perhaps we should come up with a set of ethical rules for being out in the bush, that we all can follow and impress upon others to follow also... Well its a nice idea any way....
Cheers,
Karl
This is something I have seen here in Australia for many years, here it stems from the idea of every Aussie is a bushman due to our cultural roots, but this is far from the truth, here young bucks go out and set up a camp for the weekend, burn everything in sight and destroy the very thing that drew them to the location in the first place.
Here in Australia it got so bad at one point that now you are unable to practice a lot of the things that would be classed as bushcraft, (fire lighting, plant food / medicine use, wild harvesting, brush shelter construction, etc, etc...) all of these things are illegal here on public land, if you want to do this and stay in good stead with the law you must find a patch of private land and a good natured land owner, I would hate to see this happen else where...
As for ethics:
1) Leave no trace
2) Use natural selection as your guide
3) take only what you need
4) Keep your camp in perspective; do you really need a fire that big? Do you really need to have a clearing that big?
5) Return the site to the same condition you found it in or better if you are using another's site.
These are just some of the things I take into account when I am out in the Bush, and they are the golden rules I enforce vigorously when I go out with youth groups or even friends for a weekend camp out...
Bushcraft is a great hobby, it can bring you closer to the world we live in and has a lot to offer to any who are interested, but in the practice of Bushcraft we all need to help regulate the practice, to lead by example and to correct things that we see that are wrong or dangerous.
I know I am probably preaching to the converted here but it makes me so angry when I think that the simple act of respecting our natural resources is so low on some peoples list of things to do when out in the bush, I am not saying we should become the Bushcraft Police but just try to educate the public better when we are out there enjoying our chosen hobby.
Well thats my two cents, Perhaps we should come up with a set of ethical rules for being out in the bush, that we all can follow and impress upon others to follow also... Well its a nice idea any way....
Cheers,
Karl
Its not the popularisation of Bushcraft that's the problem. It is the lack of respect for everything.
Lack of respect for traditions, people, places, history, nature, culture...the whole d*mn lot.
Bushcraft's popularity is just one small reaction to this decline. It fills a whole in people's lives. It puts respect back in its rightful place.
Unfortunately it is also subject to ignorance (that leads to lack of respect) as much as anything else today.
Lack of respect for traditions, people, places, history, nature, culture...the whole d*mn lot.
Bushcraft's popularity is just one small reaction to this decline. It fills a whole in people's lives. It puts respect back in its rightful place.
Unfortunately it is also subject to ignorance (that leads to lack of respect) as much as anything else today.
I've kind of kept out of this thread for two reasons. One, right now it's an emotive subject for me, and two, I do see and appreciate the two sides; enjoy our peaceful pastime or educate the ignorant (and I use that word in both of it's modern contexts )
Bushcraft too popular? Well, kind of, when it labels us all with an od clad, treemunching, knife, axe and bahco carrying hammock dwellers *fashion* fad.
The reality for virtually all of us is very different.
It's knowledge and competency, and we only gain that from actually doing stuff. And right there is the start of the divide, we all do our *own* stuff, whether it's snowholes or back garden, solitary or with companions whose company adds to the outing.
Or the hardy souls who round up the neighbourhood weans and patiently teach, "Look, this is how this grows, we use it for....and if you're sensible with it the resource it offers will be available again when you need it."
Personally I find the name awkward to use in conversation amongst non bcrs......but then I'm hardly the typical *image*, am I? My neighbours have become complacent about the fit, healthy looking (weather beaten ), od clad friends who visit me; tree carrying, parachute bearing.....an ostrich egg last week, friends whose company I enjoy They've live beside me here for twenty years but they still don't understand it
One of them spends 2 hours a day just fixing her curtains and windows to look just right :tapedshut ) and watches every soap opera on the goggle box, how on Earth can I relate to her or she to me But, she flings her rubbish over into the burn. Her house is immaculate but behind her back fence is a growing mountain of old paint cans and rollers, broken blinds, tiles, and black bags and whin chips stuck to dog dirt from her garden. I keep the stretch along my fences clean, but seeing her rubbish makes others think it's okay to trash the place. It's of no value to her, she moans constantly about the trees and their *rubbish* with no concept of real rubbish whatsoever.
We all have moans like this.
We all have our own ways of doing things.
BcUK is a broad kirk; we're all welcome, and if the site helps others to be more appreciative of and respectful of our natural environment then that is such a very good thing.
Leave no trace......we try, we really do, but the very fact we have been there at all changes
the places we wander through or camp over on.
I freely admit I use the natural resources around me, I don't despoil or devastate, I do replant, I do seed useful native plants and I do encourage a healthy wildlife diversity.
Guidelines and rules are always emotive. The Scottish Outdoor Access Code is a pretty good starting place
http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/default.asp
(if someone knows of other relevant English, Welsh and Irish sites like this, please do post the links or pm me and I'll add them to this thread)
but our guidelines change dependant on the situation.
e.g. Real fires are the norm for many of us, but there are ways of setting fires when on a settled camp that doesn't kill the ground beneath, that we wouldn't consider for just a small brew up fire that we'd wash out and scatter when stopping for a quiet half hour.
How can simple guidelines cover the multitude of activities like this?
They can't, only learning and experience does that.
The discussions on the forum allow information to disseminate so widely; your conversations are read by literally hundreds of thousands of people, it feels like a small community here, but it's a noticeable one.
I prefer the small meets, (I've got a village mentality, I like to know everyone around me) but the much rarer large Moots and Gatherings seem to be wonderful socialising and exhibition events......and even there folks create their own space
We are an intrinsic part of the Natural World, but I think some folks have become so divorced from reality that they would rather destroy what they do not understand.
I stood watching an ants nest, along the edge of the tarmac path, bustle with excitement this Summer, the new queens were just coming up to the surface, fluttering wings like bridal veils and the drones were quivering with....well like nervous but expectant bridegrooms I suppose..... I found it fascinating A neighbour walked past and said, "Och no, I'll go and boil a kettle, that'll kill them" I could have wept. They weren't bothering anyone, beside the road at a path edge and she would kill them just because she could. Pitiful excuse for a human. I told her not to bother, they'd all be away in an hour......and she looked at me suspiciously, how did I know that?
Is bushcraft too popular? no, not if there are people like that still around who would destroy rather than value or appreciate.
cheers,
Toddy
(sorry Stuart, I kind of wandered over your thread
)
)Bushcraft too popular? Well, kind of, when it labels us all with an od clad, treemunching, knife, axe and bahco carrying hammock dwellers *fashion* fad.
The reality for virtually all of us is very different.
It's knowledge and competency, and we only gain that from actually doing stuff. And right there is the start of the divide, we all do our *own* stuff, whether it's snowholes or back garden, solitary or with companions whose company adds to the outing.
Or the hardy souls who round up the neighbourhood weans and patiently teach, "Look, this is how this grows, we use it for....and if you're sensible with it the resource it offers will be available again when you need it."
Personally I find the name awkward to use in conversation amongst non bcrs......but then I'm hardly the typical *image*, am I? My neighbours have become complacent about the fit, healthy looking (weather beaten
), od clad friends who visit me; tree carrying, parachute bearing.....an ostrich egg last week, friends whose company I enjoy They've live beside me here for twenty years but they still don't understand it One of them spends 2 hours a day just fixing her curtains and windows to look just right :tapedshut ) and watches every soap opera on the goggle box, how on Earth can I relate to her or she to me
But, she flings her rubbish over into the burn. Her house is immaculate but behind her back fence is a growing mountain of old paint cans and rollers, broken blinds, tiles, and black bags and whin chips stuck to dog dirt from her garden. I keep the stretch along my fences clean, but seeing her rubbish makes others think it's okay to trash the place. It's of no value to her, she moans constantly about the trees and their *rubbish* with no concept of real rubbish whatsoever.We all have moans like this.
We all have our own ways of doing things.
BcUK is a broad kirk; we're all welcome, and if the site helps others to be more appreciative of and respectful of our natural environment then that is such a very good thing.
Leave no trace......we try, we really do, but the very fact we have been there at all changes
the places we wander through or camp over on.
I freely admit I use the natural resources around me, I don't despoil or devastate, I do replant, I do seed useful native plants and I do encourage a healthy wildlife diversity.
Guidelines and rules are always emotive. The Scottish Outdoor Access Code is a pretty good starting place
http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/default.asp
(if someone knows of other relevant English, Welsh and Irish sites like this, please do post the links or pm me and I'll add them to this thread)
but our guidelines change dependant on the situation.
e.g. Real fires are the norm for many of us, but there are ways of setting fires when on a settled camp that doesn't kill the ground beneath, that we wouldn't consider for just a small brew up fire that we'd wash out and scatter when stopping for a quiet half hour.
How can simple guidelines cover the multitude of activities like this?
They can't, only learning and experience does that.
The discussions on the forum allow information to disseminate so widely; your conversations are read by literally hundreds of thousands of people, it feels like a small community here, but it's a noticeable one.
I prefer the small meets, (I've got a village mentality, I like to know everyone around me) but the much rarer large Moots and Gatherings seem to be wonderful socialising and exhibition events......and even there folks create their own space
We are an intrinsic part of the Natural World, but I think some folks have become so divorced from reality that they would rather destroy what they do not understand.
I stood watching an ants nest, along the edge of the tarmac path, bustle with excitement this Summer, the new queens were just coming up to the surface, fluttering wings like bridal veils and the drones were quivering with....well like nervous but expectant bridegrooms I suppose..... I found it fascinating
A neighbour walked past and said, "Och no, I'll go and boil a kettle, that'll kill them" I could have wept. They weren't bothering anyone, beside the road at a path edge and she would kill them just because she could. Pitiful excuse for a human. I told her not to bother, they'd all be away in an hour......and she looked at me suspiciously, how did I know that?Is bushcraft too popular? no, not if there are people like that still around who would destroy rather than value or appreciate.
cheers,
Toddy
(sorry Stuart, I kind of wandered over your thread
)
A few weeks ago I described Toddy as the Gandalf or Dumbledore of bushcraft (apart from the obvious gender differences!).
Q.E.D.
:notworthy
Geoff
