Burn treatment in the bush

[Graveworm]

Pardon me for butting in. There is a lot to burns and treatment depends on the cause and severity etc. But generally like everyone else has said first aid is water for about 10 - 20 minutes depending on the thickness of the burn and the area of the body covered. If it's a really large area of the body then you may well be adding serious problems by overcooling. Follow with a non adherent dressing and again it's already been said; clingfilm is best unless you have proper burn dressings but they don't add much over clingfilm if you have already cooled things down. Burn dressings are most useful for large burn areas or where you can't find, or use running water. Creams etc are best avoided, especially oil, fat or alcohol based, on burns; some gels can be used on small burns. I'm a wilderness EMT, BATLS and a First Aid instructor if it helps.

 

[rik_uk3]

Lots of water. With things like Savlon, once opened, discard at end of trip and take a new tube on your next journey.

 

[Elines]

?so what do you do if you don't have a tap full of running water nearby?

especially as a the boot full of boiling water seems a possible injurry (hadn't thougt of it myself but sounds like it could be nasty)

 

[BoonDoc]

Wilderness EMT with BATLS training here and an herbalist.

?so what do you do if you don't have a tap full of running water nearby?

If you are somewhere that has little or no water you still need to reduce the heat of the burn rapidly. Mist and Fan the burn site. This means that you get it wet with water from your canteen and fan it with a jacket or the wind. The convection will reduce the heat.
You still need at least 20 minutes of cooling.


The original question was regarding plants available for burn treatment. If you are near the sea then bladderwrack will be the weapon of choice. There are little sachets of gooey stuff at the end of each frond. Use this as you would with aloe.



To be honest.....rapid irrigation for at least 20 minutes followed by cling film is the best option.

Be sure not to cool the skin too quickly. Only use tepid water. DO NOT USE ICE! If you freeze the skin it will trap the heat deep within the tissues.

 

[Shewie]

Lots of water. With things like Savlon, once opened, discard at end of trip and take a new tube on your next journey.

Why's that Rik ?

 

[The Big Lebowski]

On another note... I carry a 10cm x 10cm sterikool dressing for larger burns and several sachets of burns gel for smaller incidents.

I've used this on three injury's in work, and all the patients said its wonderful stuff. The brand name was Sterikool, but there's lots of choice these days. Its worth having in your FAK.

al.

 

[Elines]

?are there two types of 'gel'?

one that 'treats' the burn - which may cause problems eg masking symptoms/causing problems for proper medics

and

another that merely cools the burn as an alternative to water - presumably this type is in some kind of bag/covering so that it does not stick to the wound?

 

[Toddy]

The burn gel stuff dries onto the skin like newskin. It contains a pain killer.
It really is *only* for tiny wee scorches and burns. The kind Shewie described.

If the burn has caused skin to slough off, or is of any 'size' rather than just a touch, get to a A&E asap.

The stericool pads that TBL suggested sound useful though.

The only other burn cream that I'd ever used, and that was years ago, was the yellow flamazine. Not advised now by first aiders.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[The Big Lebowski]

As far as I know, the gel is simply to draw the heat out of the burn, say between your fingers and keep the skin moist while doing so... The sterikool patches are cold on the skin and bring instant relief. They are designed to be held in place with a bandage en-route to medical attention. I mention the brand name as its the only one we stock in work (through RS) but first hand user accounts say it's good at what it does.

Anything over a moderate accidental spill of hot liquid, or burnt fingers from a pot handle and it would be a decamp A&E anyway. Myself or someone else. A good burn (I've had a couple form catering) is never a pleasurable thing and gets more painful over time. Plus you risk infection if the skin is compromised in any way.

Water or a burns pad/gel as quick as possible to reduce the damage.

Next time I'm doing a contents check of the burns kit in work, I'll have a look and see what the compounds made of.

The Streikool pad 10x10cm can be purchased for around £2. Their own brand gel is around £5 for 6. Sachets of budget gel £1 for 6 via Asda or such.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/first-aid-kits/0481557/

al.

 

[ged]

?so what do you do if you don't have a tap full of running water nearby? ...

Good question.

I think you have to accept that living as we do when out in the wilds things aren't ideal. So it's worth taking that extra bit of care. Presumably we have the time, after all, or we wouldn't be there.

Given that it's implicitly accepted that things are not ideal, water could be recirculated by holding the burned part over a bowl (I carry a collapsible one) or some other container to catch the water which runs off. Something like a spoon or cup or just the hand could be used to keep the burned part wet. If it's the hand that's burned (it often is, e.g. my previous post ) then you can just agitate the water with the burned part. Water is a really excellent material for heat transfer (which is why we use it in central heating systems and car radiators for example) and, more to the point, storage. As long as the amount of water being used is quite a lot bigger than the amount of flesh to be cooled, the water won't warm up appreciably so it will continue to have the all-important cooling effect on the burn.

The big drawback in this scenario of course is that the recycled water is inevitably going to be contaminated to some extent. In my relative ignorance I'd take the view that if the water could be kept reasonably clean then in the short term the risk of contamination would probably be preferable to the certainty of damage from heat, but I'd welcome views from the medics here.

 

[udamiano]

I suppose at lot of the answers depend on the size and location of the burn, and if it's deep or not. large deep burns cause the body to go into shock, as fluid from the damaged area seeps into the burn, this really needs experienced medical personnel to deal with. especially if as you say the local water cannot be trusted, then really its a question of if you don't treat the area with an antiseptic will the patient die, again, really this is a question for a qualified medic.

I would suggest that if anyone does intend to go into an area where the chances of evacuation cannot be guaranteed within a short period of time, then the group should include a qualified medic, and not just a first-aider, yes this will probably increase the overall cost, but the question is, how much is your life worth.

well thats how I see it anyway

Day

 

[Ex member - Bilgerat]

Why's that Rik ?

Re Savlon....

As stated in my post..... Pseudomonas Pyocyanea (P. pyocyanea) Will grow on Savlon........

Savlon is a media for making this bacteria grow....... This may cause septicaemia.... and can be fatal......


And as fer allergies.... It is not only the allergy that you have to be careful of it is the secondary effects of the allergy....

Pustules.. Granuloma... Skin & Tissue Necrosis.... Leading to a much increased infection risk......

Sometimes you have to accept there is not much you are able to do....

 

[Shewie]

Re Savlon....

As stated in my post..... Pseudomonas Pyocyanea (P. pyocyanea) Will grow on Savlon........

Savlon is a media for making this bacteria grow....... This may cause septicaemia.... and can be fatal......

Can that happen even with a cap screwed on? I can remember my mum having a huge tube of it in the bathroom cabinet when we were growing up, that one must have been getting on for 10 years old at least.

 

[Ex member - Bilgerat]

Can that happen even with a cap screwed on? I can remember my mum having a huge tube of it in the bathroom cabinet when we were growing up, that one must have been getting on for 10 years old at least.

The bacteria (P. pyocyanea) needs air to grow... So it will not grow in the tube wiv the cap screwed on.... However when you apply Savlon to the skin then the Bacteria will grow in the Savlon (and you) using the Savlon as nutriment...

Burn damaged tissue needs to be kept sterile as possible.... So I would avoid its use...

In fact I really would avoid its use anywhere.........

 

[atross]

Interesting thread.

Having spent some time with Fraiser from costal survial rectently and noticed how he treated a sever scald with natural remedies quite successfully I would recomend sending him a PM or waiting for him to post.

I have just had a read of the oxford hand book of expedition and wilderness medicine (oxford hand books are carried by most medics).

They recommend

Minor burns
-Stop the burning process, baisically remove the heat source
-cool the burn, immerse in tepid water. Cooling large areas can trigger hypothermia. Chemical burns will need high levels of irregation
-Control the pain, baisically pain killers
-Use suitable burn dressings, cling film is ideal. Cling film is sterile as long as the first few centimeters are discarded. Hand burns may be treated in a plastic bag. Cooling gels such as burnshield are useful to cool the burn and provide good pain relief.

Key points,

-Burns to significant areas such as hands feet face and genitalia should be assessed by a specialist.
-10%+ body surface burnt need to evac
-Blistered burns should not be de roofed, large blisters may be asperated with a serile needle
-Bactroban or silver sulphadiazine creams help prent infection and should be applied under the cling film or plastic bag. parafin gause is usefull to dress burns as it is less likely to adhere to the burn.
-elevate limbs to reduce swelling
-Ibuprofen is usually sufficent analgesia for a dressed burn.
-Burns should be redressed and checked for infecton every 24-48hrs.

I am not a doc, just relaying the info in a trusted medical text.

 

[BoonDoc]

Another option is honey. There is a good chance that you will have this in camp for your breakfast porridge.
After you have cooled the burn with 20 minutes of irrigation, put a lot of honey on it and then wrap with cling film or something similar.

The research is here regarding honey use for burns.

 

[Toddy]

Having a thought about this actually, and the issues of cooling, infection, allergy and so on.
The British Navy of the past used vinegar for all of the burns, scrapes, blisters, etc., even for soaking the suture threads.
They didn't use alcohol because that was drinkable.
But, alcohol evaporates and thus cools the skin, while vinegar stops bacterial growth 'and' is a recommended douche or wash for even intimate places.

Just wondering, but....is a bottle of Sarson's a good idea in the camp ?

cheers,
Toddy

p.s. Thank you, good to know about the honey; I've only used it on the festering wee pustles around skelfs and it was amazingly effective

 

[rik_uk3]

Why's that Rik ?

Its cuts down the chance of bacteria growth, bugs grow in all sorts of mediums even disinfectant, so open, use, dispose and replace. The chance of serious bacterial growth is not high but I won't take the chance of infection/cross infection and for what a tube costs its not worth messing about.

Search for bacteria growth savlon and you will see where the panic started after some hospital stock was found to be contaminated.

 

[Ex member - Bilgerat]

I feel we are wandering a bit off the burn topic here...

Honey sometimes contains spores of the bacterium Clostridium botulinum, which can transform into toxin-producing bacteria.

Vinegar slows down the rate of Bacteria reprodution particullary when in an anerobic state (No Oxygen) (Lid sealed) however once out of the bottle and especially when diluted.... (Blood, water etc... ) And in aerobic conditions wont act as an effective surface antibiotic.....


The problem wiv Savlon starts once it has been put on a wound.....

Savlon really is worse than useless in a lot of situations.... And can lead to septicaemia and death....

Really don't use any.......

 

[mrcharly]

How does that compare to iodine-based antiseptics, such as betadine?

We keep betadine gel and an iodine-based tincture in the house for minor wounds. I've noticed that if I have red inflamed scratches on my hands and dab them with tincture, they heal very very quickly compared to just washing them.