Bow drill problem

[Rob Hofman]

Hallo,

Last weekend i found some willow in the park nearby my house , It was a branch broken from a tree and hanging vertical for some time it was bone dry. Willow is my favorit bow drill material and normally gives me no problems. I made a drill and a fireboard from it , as a drill socket i use a stone this minimize's the friction so no problem there. Everything went well but no ember , normally i have lots of brown/black powder with willow which ignites easy this time the powder structure was different it was more needle like or as Mors Kochanski writes in his book page 26 " If the powder is more brown than black or forms into rolls,then discard the drill and board". I have had this powder structure with different types of wood (birch/pine) and had no ember .

Does anyone no the reasons for this powder structure? and why it doesn't ignite?

cheers Rob

 

[falcon]

Could the wood be too punky/decayed ?

 

[rich59]

Another thought is that is isn't as dry as you think. Dead wood outside will contain quite a lot of moisture compared to wood kept in the warm and dry house.

 

[steve a]

With that formation of powder it is normally not enough heat has been built up, ease off the pressure a bit and increase speed of bowing.

 

[Rob Hofman]

I also had this problem with wood which i kept in house for a few months, this wood wasn't decayed. I will try your tip steve , i let you know about the result.

cheers Rob

 

[david1]

if you were washed up on an island and had to make fire how would you do it.
(lighters dont count )


can anyone walk into the woods with a knife and string. cut out some wood and light a fire with it ?

Ive tried rose, bramble and buddlier hazel last but not least pine, smoke is no problem but getting an ember is becomming an obssesion. at this stage I dont even want to make fire from it. just a little glow would make my day.

I am going to cut some more wood and dry it in the aring curboard this time.





David

 

[Rob Hofman]

Hallo,

My final goal is to go into the woods with a knife and a peace off string and make fire. Two years ago in Austria i had a fire in 4 hours with a set made off Hazel the greatest problem was to find a drill socket . Last year in Sweden i had no succes i used pine which works most off the time here in the Netherlands but in Sweden had to much Resin. So i keep on practicing and learning every time.

cheers Rob

 

[match]

This problem often happens with willow and aspen, and is 'just one of those things'. In some woods, the wood is quite fragile, and the friction from the bowing process cause small sections break off, and the wood effectively 'crumbles' before it gets hot enough to adhere and form a coal.

This was discussed here a while ago:

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=6401

 

[Wayland]

if you were washed up on an island and had to make fire how would you do it.
(lighters dont count )


can anyone walk into the woods with a knife and string. cut out some wood and light a fire with it ?


David

I'd take the knife and hit it with a stone .

 

[Jeff Wagner]

if you were washed up on an island and had to make fire how would you do it.
(lighters dont count )


can anyone walk into the woods with a knife and string. cut out some wood and light a fire with it ?




David

Better yet, I can walk into the wood with absolutely nothing and make fire. This line of thinking is exactly why I feel the hand drill is important to learn. Once mastered it is far easier to accomplish with the materials at hand and required the fewest number of components.

 

[bushtuckerman]

I don't like to contradict the good man, but i have gotten embers with the needle like structure with no problems, and ditto your view of willow as a drill/hearthwood.

when you get this kind of material then it's probably a good idea to adjust your technique, generally i press harder with the bearing block, and try to get it to squeek occasionally...a bit haphazard i'm afraid but i find that if you experiment, and vary from a theme then you get results more often thatn not.

my view on moisture is that it SHOULD be irrelevent, if it feels bone dry then however much moisture there actually is it is negligible anyway, since in terms of heat you won't have much work in evaporating small amounts of H2O. I have also gotten embers with wet wood, and i'm not exactly a pro..far from it, i just use willow to do it

my three pennies worth.

 

[rich59]

Hallo,

My final goal is to go into the woods with a knife and a peace off string and make fire. Two years ago in Austria i had a fire in 4 hours with a set made off Hazel the greatest problem was to find a drill socket . Last year in Sweden i had no succes i used pine which works most off the time here in the Netherlands but in Sweden had to much Resin. So i keep on practicing and learning every time.

cheers Rob

That is a great ambition Rob.

I have set myself a similar challenge - still working on it. Only I decided to do away with the knife and the string. After deciding I couldn't make a natural cordage strong enough for a bow string I worked on learning the hand drill.

I have achieved it in the lane down the back of my garden but have yet to achieve it in one session in virgin territory. May be next time....

 

[Rob Hofman]

Hallo,

I just came home from work and tried the advice from bushtuckerman , i gave it a lot off presure i even had to tighten the bow string a bit. at first it seemed promessing there was smoke for about 8 seconds coming out of the dust/needles but then it died . Tommorow i will try it again with Steve's advice less pressure more speed iwill also try brute force and speed ( if thats possible)

Natural string i've tried it with rope from nettl en willow bark didn't work for me either , i had succes with rope made from intestines from a pig but i also tried to make from intestines from a duck but that didn't work.

I am working on the handrill but need a lot off practice , a lot of blisters and just two coals yet with a drill and board dried on our wood stove.

cheers Rob

 

[hawsome34]

I am trying the bow drill with different combinations of wood.

Willow
Sycamore
Hazel
Poplar

I have tried each drill/ spindle on a hearth / baseboard of the same wood, and each hearth / baseboard with all the other woods. Up to now my only independant success is plenty of dust (from light brown to near black). Some of the dust is very fine, smoetimes it gets a little more coarse. The hearth / baseboard end of the drill / spindle gets very hot (any hotter it'll be glowing)

My problem is once I get a good deal of smoke from the process, the drill begins to stick. I lighten the pressure but the drill wont remain engaged in the hearth. Or the string slips even when I tighten the string as I drill.

The wood I use has been indoors for several weeks. Though not in a warm part of the house...

Any tips??

 

[spamel]

Somebody told me to move the bow away from yourself if it slips. It won't go too far obviously, but the string is tensioned and will grip the drill better.

If you are producing light brown powder, you're not drilling hard or fast enough. I quote Ray from his first book, the survival handbook, page 44:

Another is that you may not be drilling hard or fast enough; an indication of this is if the coal is more brown than black. If you are pushing down harder than you are drilling fast you will find that the powder is more fibrous and less powdery. If the notch is filled with powder but is not smouldering you are not putting enough effort into the process and must push and drill harder.

So pull your finger out!!!

 

[Ogri the trog]

My problem is once I get a good deal of smoke from the process, the drill begins to stick. I lighten the pressure but the drill wont remain engaged in the hearth. Or the string slips even when I tighten the string as I drill.

Any tips??

The only way I can think of to overcome a sticky drill, is to tighten the cord.
Either from the outset - and have to get used to the drill springing out again...
...or by putting your thumb between the cord and the bow - yes it hurts a bit but how much do you want to succeed
Maybe a different cord that slips less is on the cards?

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Rob Hofman]

Hallo,

When my rope slips i first try to give more tension with my thumb and index/middle finger ( pushing against the rope with my thumb and "pulling"with the index and middle finger i hope you understand what i write a photo would be better i think)

When the drill sticks there maybe two problems to much friction in the drill socket ( i use a stone which fits nicely into my hand or i use a hardwood like oak )or the hole in your fire board is to deep this is simply solved take your knive and remove some wood around the edges off the hole.

Last friday i tried it again with that same piece off willow bot the dust was coarse again. Thanks Match for the artikel off Dick Baugh he explains my problem very well when the powder is coarse the ignition temp. is higher the only thing i don't understand is why sometimes willow will gives very fine powder and sometimes it is coarse?


cheers Rob

 

[SMARTY]

Try a double cord, if are you not doing so already.