Bouyancy Aid or Lifejacket

[boatman]

I only ever wear a bouyancy aid because I can swim in it. It doesn't hamper self-rescue and protects the upper body while adding a bit of warmth. The value of the lifejacket is claimed to be that it keeps the body with the face up out of the water but there are instances of people drowning because they were held in that position and unable to avoid waves breaking over their faces. Never having worn a lifejacket in the water I have no personal experience of them so comments from those that have would be welcome.

referring to the tragedy that prompted this post I don't quite see how you can be face down in the water wearing a bouyancy aid that provides bouyancy all round the body much as does a rubber ring.

 

[sandbender]

"...referring to the tragedy that prompted this post I don't quite see how you can be face down in the water wearing a bouyancy aid that provides bouyancy all round the body much as does a rubber ring..."

Was the lifejacket sized for a child? Was it a lifejacket or a bouyancy aid? Was it fitted properly? Time will tell I suppose. A great tragedy for the family and those who knew them.

 

[resnikov]

The Luftwaffe had a life jacket at the start of the war that was inflated all around the body, the problem was an unconscious pilot head would slump forward in to the water and they would drown. Later versions had no inflation bit at the back so they would float on their back and keep the head out of the water.

Not sure if this is what happened in the recent incident but it could have been.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[shaggystu]

....I don't quite see how you can be face down in the water wearing a bouyancy aid that provides bouyancy all round the body much as does a rubber ring.

well that's just the point isn't it, there's bouyancy all round, you can float any way up with equal ease

Was the lifejacket sized for a child? Was it a lifejacket or a bouyancy aid? Was it fitted properly? Time will tell I suppose. A great tragedy for the family and those who knew them.

from what i understand the poor little tykes died in hospital, so presumably from the effects of exposure/hypothermia, i don't think that the bouyancy aid/life preserver would've have made an enormous amount of difference to that outcome would it?

cheers

stuart

 

[Lister]

Boatman, you beat me to it, was just about to put one in the Transport section

My personal view is that buoyancy aids in there current form (non-corrective jackets) shouldn't exist, that being said, I know this only tends to affect the 50N rated jackets and that the 150N and 275N rated jackets *generally* are self-correcting.

As you have mentioned, buoyancy aids do allow you to swim whereas life-jackets may not, having never worn a life-jacket i can't comment on the auto-correction of them but i do think this features is more of a help than a hinderance even if it does just keep your head-up the right way.

With the above in mind, I believe that the higher rated lifejackets (275N) will tend to have a pod/bubble that deploys over the head to stop the danger that you mentioned about waves.

A guide to lifejacket ratings can be found: http://www.crew-safe.co.uk/acatalog/Lifejacket-buoyancy-ratings-CE-Categories.html
I think that the moment the water gets even the slightest bit tidal that buoyancy aids should not be word but of their non-corrective construction and that if you are renting watercraft some somewhere then it is the watercraft providers responsibility (evenmoreso than your own) to ensure you have/are given the correct rated lifesaving device before you set foot on the water, I can't help but wonder if this kayak was their own or if it was rented, if it transpires that it is rented, I wonder if the shopowner would face any charge of manslaughter of some degree (duty of care etc)

 

[sandbender]

"...from what i understand the poor little tykes died in hospital, so presumably from the effects of exposure/hypothermia, i don't think that the bouyancy aid/life preserver would've have made an enormous amount of difference to that outcome would it?.."

Indeed, there is a fair amount of speculation in the press and initially the story was about "were they or weren't wearing jackets or aids, later in an interview for Radio 4 the main investigating police officer made some comments about the unsuitability of canadian canoes because they were not 'naturally buoyant" there has been little mention of just how bloody cold a sea loch can be.

"...I can't help but wonder if this kayak was their own or if it was rented, if it transpires that it is rented, I wonder if the shopowner would face any charge of manslaughter of some degree (duty of care etc)..."

Again, lots of speculation but several of the papers carried photos of a rack of for hire canoes at the camp site were the family were staying.

At best people (and the press) are just guessing about the facts of this tragedy, the father may have been an expert canoeist, it may have been his canoe and equipment, his family may have been adequately equipped and experienced in canoeing in Scottish Sea lochs, or maybe not. Things can go wrong, for anyone.

I am a strong swimmer, I generally always wear a PFD, I always have a helmet handy if I'm on a river, I always have a spare paddle etc...

 

[ex member pyrophil]

From a yacthsman point of view if the boom hit you on the head and knocked you overboard (there is some bad sailers about) wearing a bouyancy aid you got 50 50 chance of floating face down or up. A lifejacket face 100% up.
I have tried out lifejackets in the sea in summer and you cam swim about pretty good in shorts and t-shirt, fullly clothed your not going to do much lifejacket or aid. A lot has to do with what clothes and boots you got on. At sea your not going to be swimming to shore anyway, same for large rivers. I wouldnt wear a aid or put my kids in one.

 

[ex member pyrophil]

well that's just the point isn't it, there's bouyancy all round, you can float any way up with equal ease



from what i understand the poor little tykes died in hospital, so presumably from the effects of exposure/hypothermia, i don't think that the bouyancy aid/life preserver would've have made an enormous amount of difference to that outcome would it?

cheers

stuart

NO you do not float head up wearing a bouyancy aid if you get knocked out, your end up on your front face down or on your back face up.
A lot of yacthsman do not were jackets because they say they will die from the cold before rescure. I would rather try to get back on board or make it to liferaft lol depends on time of year how cold it is.

 

[Nohoval_Turrets]

Having tried both lifejackets and pfds (in sea kayaking), I've found that PFDs are generally preferable. Life jackets create a lot of buoyancy up front, which can make it tricky to get into a good position to right and re-enter the boat from the water. So they sort of work against you when trying to re-enter. PFDs give you extra buoyancy but, being neutral, also allow you to maneuver yourself just under the boat and kick with the feet to push the boat right side up. They work with you.

I think the more likely issue here is with the boat not having enough flotation. Ideally any space not occupied by people or gear should be filled with airbags. Otherwise the canoe will just swamp, and you can never get the water back out to make it buoyant again.

But of course we don't really know what happened here. Without knowing the details we can't really know what the lessons are.

 

[treefrog]

the main investigating police officer made some comments about the unsuitability of canadian canoes because they were not 'naturally buoyant"

It was a quote from the Coastguard
"Peter Godding, of Stornoway Coastguard, who co-ordinated the search, said the Canadian-style canoe had "no inherent buoyancy - and is quite an unstable canoe unless you are with people who are experienced".

 

[santaman2000]

First a quick comment; All life jackets ARE a PFDs (Personal Flotation Devises) but not ALL PFDs are life jackets. They're rated according to what use they're approved for or intended for by various local, national, or even international agencies. In the US that agency is the Coast Guard; I don't know what the aprroving agency in ther UK is but I'm sure someone on here does. The international agency is SOLAS Service (Safety Of Life At Sea Service) Following is a bulletin lifted from the Coast Guard website explaining intended and approved uses for various classes of PFDs, It should be noted that the higher classes (class 1) are designe to be self righting for an unconcious victim whereas the lower classes (class 4) are designed to allow the wearer maximum movement to perform the activities he's on the water for, water skiing, hunting (it's difficult to swing a shotgun safely in a class 1 PFD), etc:


[h=2]RECREATIONAL BOATING PFD SELECTION:[/h]
TYPE I PFDS / OFF-SHORE LIFE JACKETS: Best for all waters, open ocean, rough seas, or remote water, where rescue may be slow coming. Abandon-ship lifejacket for commercial vessels and all vessels carrying passengers for hire:

• Inherently Buoyant Type I PFDs - SOLAS Service
• Inherently Buoyant Type I PFDs - U.S. Service
• Inflatable Type I PFDs - SOLAS and Domestic
• Hybrid Type I PFDs - US Services

TYPE II PFDS / NEAR-SHORE BUOYANT VESTS: For general boating activities. Good for calm, inland waters, or where there is a good chance for fast rescue.
:

• Inherently Buoyant Type II PFDs
• Inflatable Type II PFDs
• Hybrid Type II PFDs

TYPE III PFDS / FLOTATION AIDS: For general boating or the specialized activity that is marked on the device such as water skiing, hunting, fishing, canoeing, kayaking and others. Good for calm, inland waters, or where there is a good chance for fast rescue. Designed so that wearing it will complement your boating activities:

• Inherently Buoyant Type III PFDs
• Inflatable Type III PFDs
• Hybrid Type III PFDs

TYPE V PFDS / SPECIAL USE DEVICES: Only for special uses or conditions.
See label for limits of use:

• Hybrid Inflatable PFDs
• Canoe/Kayak Vest
• Boardsailing Vests
• Deck Suits
• Work Vests for Commercial Vessels
• Commercial Whitewater Vests
• Man-Overboard Rescue Devices
• Law Enforcement Flotation Devices

Note: The Coast Guard is working with the PFD community to revise the classification and labeling of PFDs. When completed, this information will be updated and hopefully be somewhat easier to understand. Meanwhile, spending a few minutes to understand the many options available to find a PFD that you’re willing to wear could mean the difference between life and death for you or a loved one.

Each PFD sold for use on a recreational boat is required to be provided with a guide to selection entitled “Think Safe – Choose the Right PFD”. These pamphlets are tailored to the kind of PFD to which they are attached. The following information is a combination of information taken from the various pamphlets and additional guidance.

 

[sandbender]

It was a quote from the Coastguard
"Peter Godding, of Stornoway Coastguard, who co-ordinated the search, said the Canadian-style canoe had "no inherent buoyancy - and is quite an unstable canoe unless you are with people who are experienced".

Thats what I get for trying to cook dinner and listen to the Radio at the same time, thanks for the correction.