Boiling fibres?

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torjusg

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Aug 10, 2005
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I have gathered quite a lot (but not nearly enough) nettlefibres which I am going to use for a fishing-net. From what I have understood the fibres should be boiled with the outer bark on so the tannins will help preserve and strengthen the fibres.

But, for how long should I boil them? I am conserned about destroying the fibres if I boil them for too long.

Thanks

Torjus Gaaren
 

fred gordon

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Mar 8, 2006
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I was on a bushcraft course recently and we talked a lot about bush string and in particular nettles. However, our instructor said that the fibres only needed to be soaked in warm water for a few minutes. I was going to be collecting and preparing some for myself tomorrow so I would be interested in what other have to say about this. :rolleyes:
 

Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
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If you boil nettle skins in lye water, not for too long or it'll rot them, it will free the fibres more easily from the skin. This method is used to prepare fibres for fine spinning for weaving yarn.......don't see how it makes it stronger, it's just better quality 'cos the gunk has been removed from the fibres :confused:

Cheers,
Toddy
 

Ed

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Aug 27, 2003
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ummm.... I'll have to try that. I've never bothered boiling my nettle skins .... just gave them a quick soak in warm water to free up the fibres. I do boil willow (inner) bark though as this really does improve the fibres for cordage. Willow contains quite a few different acids, and boiling in a lye solution will neutralize them. You also get a nice colour change to a deep red/brown when it is done.

:D
Ed
 

torjusg

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Thanks all!

I have over the years used a lot of willow bark for temporary bindings and stuff, but have never before bothered with retting them. Now I have a batch retting and how do you think the fibres do think the fibres compare to the fibres of nettle? Are they too suitable for fishing-nets?

Torjus Gaaren
 

Toddy

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There are existing examples of Neolithic knotless netting that was made from willow bast fibres, and the earliest piece of rope that we have from Europe is a ball of willow bast twine. It's attached to a sunken log boat off the Danish coast, still there because conservation is a financial nightmare. So it's good stuff :D Seems to be stronger wet.

Cheers,
Toddy
 

Moonraker

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Aug 20, 2004
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Ed said:
ummm.... I'll have to try that. I've never bothered boiling my nettle skins .... just gave them a quick soak in warm water to free up the fibres. I do boil willow (inner) bark though as this really does improve the fibres for cordage. Willow contains quite a few different acids, and boiling in a lye solution will neutralize them. You also get a nice colour change to a deep red/brown when it is done.

:D
Ed
Torjus mentions boiling to allow the tannins to both strengthen and preserve the fibres once removed, not just to facilitate removal of the unwanted softer tissue.

Tannins are soluble in water so this makes sense, like adding boiling water to tea leaves releases tannins, amongst other things, that gives tea it's slight astringent taste. I guess the amount of boiling would be to allow sufficient break down of cells to release the tannins. Not ages I guess. leaving them to soak for a while would help too.

Once the fibres have been removed from the nettle (or indeed finished cordage?) they could be also 'treated' by boiling in a solution made from boiling nettles or other tannin rich material (oak leaves or bark for instance, especially towards the end of the season). The idea would be to allow the tannins to soak into the fibres (protein structure?), thus providing the cordage produced with additional strength (not sure how that works) and longevity, i.e. to deter insect and fungal attack(tannin having anti-bacterial and insecticidal properties). This would be more important in a finished product such as a fishing net which will get repeatedly wet etc.

I think treating the nettle in lye would strip the nettles of the soft outer tissue and aid separation of the inner fibres, but this would also remove the tannin (being an polyphenol/ acid) and it's properties? Also I seem to remember Toddy saying that this would weaken the cordage produced too.

I also suspect that treating with tannin would make the eventual fibres/ cordage more subtle as they would break down the cellular structure somewhat. As it does with leather. Just a guess though.

A natural way to aid preservation in cordage is to apply beeswax which helps inhibits desiccation and it has anti-bacterial qualities too. It might make the net float though! :)
One of the first lessons in rigging a ship model is to draw the cordage through a cake of
beeswax to lay down the “fuzz”, or loose surface fibers. But there’s more to it than that;
beeswax is a fine natural preservative which inhibits desiccation (drying) of the thread
fibers, thus prolonging the life of the cordage and preserving its pliant qualities. The
problem with drawing thread through a hard beeswax cake is that the wax forms only a
surface coating: the core of the thread remains untreated, and worst of all, the “lay” of the
thread is usually filled with wax so it is no longer easily seen and an important aspect of
realism is lost.

The way out of this problem is to dissolve the beeswax in solvent such as turpentine or
xylol, then draw the thread through a wad of cotton soaked with the wax solution. A
fresh cake of beeswax should be cut into small flakes, then placed in a small jar of
solvent; as much wax should be added as will dissolve in a day or two. The solution
should then be filtered by pouring it through cheese cloth. Id addition to treating new
thread as above, old rigging on models being cleaned or repaired can be waxed in situ by
applying the solution with a brush. Serving, seizings, and splices can be waxed and rewaxed
in similar fashion.
source: http://www.ship-modelers-assn.org/tps0508.htm
 
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torjusg

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Aug 10, 2005
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So, what about first boiling them in lye and then boil them in tannins?

The traditional method for preserving fishing nets around here, done once a year, was to boil the net in water with inner bark from birch.

Torjus Gaaren
 

Moonraker

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Aug 20, 2004
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torjusg said:
So, what about first boiling them in lye and then boil them in tannins?

The traditional method for preserving fishing nets around here, done once a year, was to boil the net in water with inner bark from birch.

Torjus Gaaren
The lye would help to ret the fibres but perhaps weakens the cordage?

Boiling the cordage as they do with the nets with bark (tannin rich like birch or oak) would have the same effect. Also the anti-bacterial properties would kill any moulds etc.
 

Moonraker

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Aug 20, 2004
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torjusg said:
So, what about first boiling them in lye and then boil them in tannins?

The traditional method for preserving fishing nets around here, done once a year, was to boil the net in water with inner bark from birch.

Torjus Gaaren
The lye would help to ret the fibres but perhaps weakens the cordage? I'm also unsure how long boiling may effect the cordage.

Boiling the cordage as they do with the nets with bark (tannin rich like birch or oak) would have the same effect. Also the anti-bacterial properties would kill any moulds etc.
 

Moonraker

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Aug 20, 2004
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torjusg said:
Just boiled the fibres for ca. 20 mins in it's own tannin and they are now to be dried again. I will keep you updated on the progress. Didn't have any lye lying around, so I can't test that I am afraid.

Torjus Gaaren
Cool, look forward to hearing how it goes.
 

torjusg

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Aug 10, 2005
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Telemark, Norway
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The fibres have dried, and I must say that there is definately no improvement to the ease of spinning because of the boiling in tannins.

I find it problematic to spin it at all in fact. I have made thicker cordage from nettle before and that was no problem, but as thin as this is quite hard. It would definately be easier if it was retted. Next time I'll try lye. For this batch... :confused: I think I'll try to wet-spin it. Perhaps that's easier.

Torjus Gaaren
 

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