Blacksmithing? Buying/Making Steel for knifes...

[Fly1]

im new to this (as in never physically done it but ive read up) so dont hate me too much! and please tell me if im completely wrong!

ok so iv been looking at various websites for CHEAP (blade making quality) steel flats but have found nothing so far in my price range just mild steel from Ebay...im on a real budget and am wanting to do this as a little project for now...I have no tools but plan on getting a small anvil/something to hit on (lol) and a hammer and then if all goes to plan, making the rest! i will also buy /make charcoal so all that leaves me with to get is the actual steel for the blade.

So this is where im stuck and looking for a little guidance (im fed up of getting the same page results off google and am looking for a "real" person to answer my questions!) from anybody with some knowledge on the subject...so heres where im at:

1. Save and buy some carbon steel flats (maybe but i dont really want to sink as much money as people are asking for them... more out of principle then anything else!). Q: Does anyone know any CHEAP sites...ive checked the ones most people recommend althought the posts for these were quite old.

2. Make the steel from scratch (yes i know a lot of you may be laughing at this point but to be honest i'd love to learn how to do it!) by buying iron oxide (is this right?), making a bloom and then the flat bar from that. Q: buy doing this in a charcoal furnace is this adding carbon to the iron?

3. Buy the mild steel from ebay and making it harder and into high carbon steel by blistering it (i am right with this yes?!) then hammering pieces together, ending up with a carbon steel flat! Q: This is what was done in the old days, combined with the above method, am i correct?

4. Getting/Buying/Finding some scrap to work with for the time being to get the hang of it all (this is defo on the cards as ive seen a really good video on Youtube of someone making a nice tomahawk from a railroad spike) but the problem i see with this is you dont really know what metal you'd be working with.

Thanks to anyone that replies!
and please give me honest and relevant feedback...im fascinated by the traditional methods and have plenty of time on my hands...this video started all this btw www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDy1jx6mLgs so as you can see i dont mind taking the hard route if i learn and save money on the way!

 

[crosslandkelly]

Old files and rasps have always been used before. Heated to remove the temper, then shaped and re tempered. There are some tutorials on the forum and youtube.

 

[spandit]

You could also try some leaf springs

 

[Everything Mac]

Hi there. I always seem to have a lot of time on my hands when threads like this crop up.

So, welcome to the blacksmithing community. There is no way out once you start swinging the hammer.

The cost of steel is high, unfortunately this is the price you have to pay to get a high quality "known" steel which ultimately gives predictable and repeatable results.

but there are loads of alternatives.

Answers.
1. As has been said the two main options for flat steel stock are old files and leaf springs. Chances are you will have a scrap yard relatively locally which will let you buy stuff for cheap. I found one recently, went in and asked to look around and mentioned what I was after. About half and hour later I walked out with a complete leaf spring, a section of band saw blade, a big bearing and some horse shoes.

I paid a tenner.
Old files are usually best found at a market, these can be had for anything from 10p to £1 each. I prefer paying £1 for several. But some times a file comes up which is worth the added *cough* expense so I'll stretch to the £1!

I would advise checking the file for a makers stamp. Anything made in Sheffield, Sweden, Canada or American files such as Nicholson are worth having. They are all good steel and make excellent blades.

Avoid files which do not have a stamp ie unbranded. I've used one or two of these with very poor results. .... Very poor.

2. Making steel from scratch is had work. I'd say do not attempt it without a professional on hand to be honest. Your best bet is to join britishblades and go to one of their hammer ins. You'll learn more in a weekend with those boys than you will in a year of reading.

3. I'd say mild steel is the place to start if you are planning to forge. It is a steep learning curve and a lot comes into it. Holding a blade sized piece of steel with tongs for example can be very difficult for a newcomer.
Start by forging with a long enough piece of mild steel that you can hold the end.
Mild can actually be hardened to a certain extent in a few ways. Pounding the edge effectively refines the structure of the steel but case hardening is the way forward.
You effectively force carbon into the top few layers of the steel. The easiest way to do this is to rub antler on the edge while it is red hot.
It will never be as hard as a real high carbon steel blade, but it would work.

4. Yup. As mentioned scrap is the way forward. I'd say 90% of what I make is from scrap or recycled steel.

Ive done a number of posts on here in the past suggesting where people can start.
Here is my latest with a cheap forge build which cost well under £30
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100296&highlight=

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96562&highlight=Anvil+Andy

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70448&highlight=Anvil+Andy

All the best
Andy

 

[grip]

im new to this (as in never physically done it but ive read up) so dont hate me too much! and please tell me if im completely wrong!

ok so iv been looking at various websites for CHEAP (blade making quality) steel flats but have found nothing so far in my price range just mild steel from Ebay...im on a real budget and am wanting to do this as a little project for now...I have no tools but plan on getting a small anvil/something to hit on (lol) and a hammer and then if all goes to plan, making the rest! i will also buy /make charcoal so all that leaves me with to get is the actual steel for the blade.

So this is where im stuck and looking for a little guidance (im fed up of getting the same page results off google and am looking for a "real" person to answer my questions!) from anybody with some knowledge on the subject...so heres where im at:

1. Save and buy some carbon steel flats (maybe but i dont really want to sink as much money as people are asking for them... more out of principle then anything else!). Q: Does anyone know any CHEAP sites...ive checked the ones most people recommend althought the posts for these were quite old.

2. Make the steel from scratch (yes i know a lot of you may be laughing at this point but to be honest i'd love to learn how to do it!) by buying iron oxide (is this right?), making a bloom and then the flat bar from that. Q: buy doing this in a charcoal furnace is this adding carbon to the iron?

3. Buy the mild steel from ebay and making it harder and into high carbon steel by blistering it (i am right with this yes?!) then hammering pieces together, ending up with a carbon steel flat! Q: This is what was done in the old days, combined with the above method, am i correct?

4. Getting/Buying/Finding some scrap to work with for the time being to get the hang of it all (this is defo on the cards as ive seen a really good video on Youtube of someone making a nice tomahawk from a railroad spike) but the problem i see with this is you dont really know what metal you'd be working with.

Thanks to anyone that replies!
and please give me honest and relevant feedback...im fascinated by the traditional methods and have plenty of time on my hands...this video started all this btw www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDy1jx6mLgs so as you can see i dont mind taking the hard route if i learn and save money on the way!

Mate pm your details and i will send you some scrap en9 i use at work it makes great blades.......Grip

 

[demographic]

Just been talking to someone on here on this very subject.

Files are often dead cheap (my local secondhand tool sales place frogs them at about 2 quid a shot, its up to me to find the good ones of which there's often plenty) and if you soften the ones you want to make knives from a new still hard one will cut and old and softened one.

 

[Shovel]

Files,Circular saw blades,or leafsprings, I've used rebar for basic practice. I'm just a beginner, just starting this week, but if you're forging, I suggest finding a teacher.

 

[Jared]

O1 for £6

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Sheffield_O1_Carbon_Tool_Steel_Clipping_6_inch.html