Bee stings and Lymes
- Thread starter drliamski
- Start date
There was a biochemist Vonda N Macintyre who used this principle as the plot for a roving doctor in post holocaust America. Dream Snake as I recall. Vonda wrote several papers on the subject back in the late 80's.
I have serious doubts about the authenticity of this article. An attack by Africanized bees is fatal in and of itself (allergic or not) unless you can get to cover.
Well, trauma (fevers, reactions to food, toxins etc) can reset immune systems. That's known but not why. A gastroenterologist on diagnosing me as wheat-intolerant also suggested trying it now and then particularly after a bout of flu or similar.
As you've pointed out, trauma can be, um damaging. Even fatal.
That's a myth. Africanised are different species to European bees. The European bee has been selectively bred for a gentle nature, particularly by some notable individuals, such as brother Adam of Buckfast Abbey.
African bees have been exploited as wild colonies rather than being domesticated so have a much more defensive nature. However they are now kept by beekeepers for study and honey. They have a stronger defensive tendency and will press attacks for longer and further, but the notion that such attacks are invariably fatal unless one gets to cover is simply incorrect.
Incorrect or not, that's been the case here for the last couple of decades. Nobody so attacked has survived unless they escaped the attack by getting to cover. And no, beekeepers aren't trying to keep them as colonies (not here anyway) as the various state agencies immediately eliminate every colony they detect (wild or otherwise) In Florida it would be both the Dept. of Agriculture and the Division of Fish & Wildlife as well as all local law enforcement agencies with a big enough budget and all federal port authorities.
Their "press the attack" mode is the exact reason why they're fatal. Nobody I know of is capable of surviving over 1000 stings (the max estimated in an attack here) and rarely even the lesser 500 stings (the average in an attack here) That's from various news reports of attacks over the last couple of decades.
Granted if by generations of breeding they could be made less aggressive that would be a boon. it could possibly even be the key to reversing colony collapse disorder.
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Florida is not the only place in the world. Progress towards more docile strains is being made in a number is South American countries
Of course mass attacks have been recorded, but given the numbers of Africanised bees, if they were as agressive and relentless as you fear, the deaths would number in the thousands a year rather than the current scant handful.
Of course mass attacks have been recorded, but given the numbers of Africanised bees, if they were as agressive and relentless as you fear, the deaths would number in the thousands a year rather than the current scant handful.
South America is where our problem with them began; the unknowing handler that released a queen in the 1950s. Since then they reached the US they've advanced their presence northward at about 200 miles per year until they finally reached a latitude where they can't survive the winter (a latitude that appears to be far warmer than anything in the UK) We've had surprisingly few attacks in Florida (in fact, none that I'm aware of although authorities detect and destroy an average of three colonies per year)
Most have occurred in the southwest. I have no idea what they're doing worldwide, but I suspect our relative lack of fatalities in the US (less than one human per year and I have no idea how many pets and livestock) has more to do with our thinner population density where the bees are gaining ground the fastest.
I didn't mention "attacks" reported in my previous posts, I was referencing fatalities. Every single attack here has resulted in one of two things: either the victim escaped into cover or they died. Every single one. And every single attack has been exactly that, a mass attack, with 80% or more of the entire hive attacking.
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No arguments with that. Although I'd be leary of trying wheat for a true celiac under any conditions.
I suspect that most people cannot tell an Africanised bee from a normal domestic bee. So if there is a single bee sting, people assume they are normal bees and only if there is a mass attack do they suspect Africanised bees. The entire eco system of a hive suggests that every attack cannot be a mass attack. If a single scout bee or forager stings, and they do, how could that trigger a mass attack from a colony a mile away?
Fair enough assumptions. The first comment is entirely likely. As is the inference from the question after the second. That said, the attacks I referenced were always near the hive obviously. All incidents I've seen or read reported were the hive defending the hive, and apparently all of the extra aggressive behavior of the Africanized bees is around hive defense.
So no, a single scout bee a long distance from the hive probably wouldn't trigger an attack (and a single bee sting is no different between the two specimens) Likewise most people probably wouldn't be able to tell an Africanized bee from an ordinary wild bee, but a domesticated bee is a slightly different matter as it would be kept as part of a beekeeper's hive. I suspect most beekeepers (at least the experienced ones) could tell the difference. It would certainly be apparent in the hive's higher aggression
As you've stated before, a colony is an organism in itself; So I suppose when we discuss the difference in the aggression level of the two different types, it might be more accurate to say the the Africanized hive is more aggressive rather than saying the individual bees them selves are.
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As bees sting, they release a sting/attack pheromone into the air for signaling. That's how they get their pals into the fight. If that was a threat to the hive, there would be plenty of bees in a small volume of space to detect the signals which every attacking bee would be secreting. I suspect that the Africanization (Brazil?) created a race of semi domesticated bees which look very much like the domesticated species of commerce. I'm just very happy that from 53N, I can look upon them from afar.
I imagine them to be somewhat hybridized as well ("semi domesticated) But from everything I've read, the African side is the most dominant.
I think it was Brazil. Some entomology department of some university had pure African bee colonies for study.
Somebody forgot to close the gate and the horses got away.
BTW, where did FireAnts come from?
Never been stung by them but I've taken a few hits from Australian Bull ants. Not funny at all.
Just think: wingless wasp, you're close.
Genetic qualities selected in domestication are usually things which don't promote wild survivorship.
The very last thing I need is smart cows that can open gates.
Somebody forgot to close the gate and the horses got away.
BTW, where did FireAnts come from?
Never been stung by them but I've taken a few hits from Australian Bull ants. Not funny at all.
Just think: wingless wasp, you're close.
Genetic qualities selected in domestication are usually things which don't promote wild survivorship.
The very last thing I need is smart cows that can open gates.
Fire ants came here from South America in the 1930s via cargo ships landing in Mobile, Alabama. Individually their bite (they bite rather than sting) isn't much worse than any other ant, but like bees, they attack in numbers if you step in their beds.
We were at least keeping them under some semblance of control until aerial spraying of DDT was banned in the late 60s.
We were at least keeping them under some semblance of control until aerial spraying of DDT was banned in the late 60s.
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"Africanized bees have slightly shorter wings, which can only be recognized reliably by performing a statistical analysis on micro-measurements of a substantial sample. One problem with this test is that there are also other subspecies, such as Apis mellifera iberiensis, which have shorter wings."
So even experts can't tell without measuring a large number of bees from the same hive, and even then it's a bit shaky.
So every single attack has resulted in either the victim dying or not. Glad you cleared that up.
Remember that there are occasions when European bees will attack en masse. My mum and a climbing partner were caught out by a colony in the 80s, which they escaped by jumping into water. If they were in the US and a few years later, that would have certainly been reported as an 'African Killa Beez OMG!!!!!' attack, such is their reputation. In fact in Brasil and Puerto Rico, where beekeeping has had to adapt to working with Africanized bees, reports are coming through of hives becoming gentler and less defensive.
