Beat army surplus Bergen for hiking?

mayweather

New Member
Dec 3, 2023
3
1
37
Ireland
Hi guys,
I’ve started to do a
Lot of hiking, injuries have meant I had to say goodbye to long distance running.

Instead I cover 5 or 6 miles hiking as brisk as possible with 40 pounds on my back. The ruck sack I currently use it bloody big, I bought it from a charity chop, it’s very long and for that reason puts some strain on my low back.

Can anyone reccomend a good Bergen for carrying such weight? I also fish quite a bit so could utilise a Bergen for carrying kit for my winter pike fishing.

I guess an important bit is I live in Ireland, and it never really stops raining. Having something water proof or something I could make waterpoof would be pretty important. Again because of where I live I have access to British surplus quite readily.

Many thanks

Stef
 

Chris

Life Member
Sep 20, 2022
982
1,139
Somerset, Yorkshire, Lincolnshire
An Army surplus bergen will be quite big too, to be honest. I wouldn’t recommend one, I don’t think it did my back many favours. You have to remember that Armed Forces bags are designed to be worn above a soldier’s webbing, which sits around the hips.

Any reason you wouldn’t go for a Lowe Alpine or an Osprey civvie daysack with a waterproof cover? They will be designed to suit your back, rather than with concessions made to work with webbing (by the lowest bidder).
 
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lostplanet

Full Member
Aug 18, 2005
2,148
247
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Kent
if you are not fussed about weight and colour, the dutch army sting or lowe alpine is about 60+ liters and has a good back padding system. look out for zips on one that are compatible with PLCE for cheap side pockets. either they are or not theyll be upside down also known as MMPS.



to add waterproof to the bag look at drybags by ortlieb (heavy duty) and exped (lightweight). lots more available but i dont know how good they are.
 
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mayweather

New Member
Dec 3, 2023
3
1
37
Ireland
An Army surplus bergen will be quite big too, to be honest. I wouldn’t recommend one, I don’t think it did my back many favours. You have to remember that Armed Forces bags are designed to be worn above a soldier’s webbing, which sits around the hips.

Any reason you wouldn’t go for a Lowe Alpine or an Osprey civvie daysack with a waterproof cover? They will be designed to suit your back, rather than with concessions made to work with webbing (by the lowest bidder).

Thanks for the advice guys I like the look of the Lowe alpine.

I prefer to go for surplus as it’s usually cheaper and depending on era/type lasts a bit longer than some equivalents you find in hiking shops.
 

GNJC

Forager
Jul 10, 2005
167
121
Carms / Sir Gar
Having had to use military kit and also having had my choice of civvy stuff, I go for the civvy stuff every time. Military kit is usually fine for what it was designed for, but in the case of bergens, that wasn't as a stand-alone load carrier.

Price and durability sometimes make surplus stuff very good value, but if it doesn't / won't / can't do the necessary, it wouldn't be worth having even if it was free. If you can take your time, wait and find a bargain on ebay or in a sale, or on here.
 
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SaraR

Full Member
Mar 25, 2017
1,651
1,209
Ceredigion
I take it the heavy weight is for exercise purposes?

Honestly, you'd be better off finding a civilian backpack that fits you well and has a good hip belt. Go try them out with a similar load in them. Also check that they are rated for that weight (surprisingly many are not).

Your back and joints will thank you and ot will be a lot more enjoyable.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,413
1,702
Cumbria
I have a 20 plus year old civvie berghaus. It's got no sign of failing in any way indeed it's used but in a very good condition.

Actually it's 29 years old. Why do you think you can't get longevity from civvy stuff? I have another sack custom made by Aiguille Alpine. I haven't used it enough because my Berghaus is just so comfortable any only about 400g heavier that there was no need to switch to it. However, it was built to be light but with very durable fabrics. The guy also makes sacks for soldiers who want something better and more specialised than issue kit. Certain regiment uses him to make sacks to carry absolutely ridiculous loads. Never found out what regiment but he had a sack in and I could fit in it I reckon and still be carried! BTW I'm 196cm and 90kg so perhaps the carried bit might be a bit too much.

BTW my berghaus rucksack is single compartment, huge lid pocket, under lid zip security pocket and two wand pockets. It's a climbing / alpinism rucksack at 50 litres plus 15 litres overload capacity. I've carried 28kg or 62 pounds on a two day trip before now. The sack handled it better then I did! Your 18kg load would be very comfortable in my rucksack. Plus if you needed to head up something a bit more vertical then you can pull in on the stability straps and it goes all limpet like on your back! I did grade 1 and 2 scrambles, up and down, wearing it and about 20kg load.
 
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Tonyuk

Settler
Nov 30, 2011
938
86
Scotland
Personally i'd recommend the airzone series from lowe alpine;


Far better than a surplus bergen, I don't know how large fishing kit can be (I've seen people pack a whole car full of stuff for 1 night) however buying a bergen for 6 mile walks is a bit overkill imo.
 

Fryer

Member
Dec 12, 2023
24
2
40
Norfolk
Look at karrimor special forces.

Years ago karrimor made the best bergans. Bomb proof material and zips. The brand was sold to sports direct and karrimor is now useless. However, the original karrimor continued under the name karrimor special forces. They are great bags. The sabre comes in a 60ltr then you can buy 2 removable 12lt side pouches so you have more flexibility. They do a really good range and you will find something that suits. The back system is also very good.

Another good brand are osprey. But they don't last as long and the material will rip and damage easier. These karrimor special forces are bomb proof
 

Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
4,079
1,774
Berlin
The Dutch army Sting has a volume of 60 litres plus 2x 10 litres in the detachable side pouches.
Into the side pouch fits very well a German army mess kit and a US army canteen on top of it with still a bit room aside, let's say for a sitting pad.
I don't own the British Osprey field bottle though and can't compare the height but the width should be OK. Otherwise one could easily attach two MTP coloured British army bottle carriers to the belly of the rucksack because the PALS field there is compatible with the MOLLE straps of the MTP Osprey pouches. I guess you can additional attach there in one line two of the MTP utility pouches, that are just a bit smaller than the water bottle carrier but have under the flap an additional draw string closure as it's known as snow collar from the main compartments of most modern rucksacks.

You can't get the Dutch bottles factory new so I will stick with the British pouches although they have a different camouflage pattern.

I own all that but bought the Dutch army Sting just recently because I looked for one in good condition. Around Christmas I can try how the pouches really fit onto the rucksack, but so far I see now it should work very well.
The Dutch mess kit fits with a bit spare room into the British bottle carrier, MTP.
I think the British mess kit is a bit higher, no idea if it still fits. I guess that we have members who can tell you that.

Under the detachable side pouches of the Sting you find a couple of loops on the sides of the rucksack that are oriented in both directions, vertically and horizontally. I think you can attach fishing rods here very well and afterwards reattach the side pouch and at the bottom of the side of the rucksack there is an open pocket at each side with a draining hole. The pockets are a bit larger than the rear pockets on usual jeans, so you could put here the end of the fishing rod.


The Sting has one main compartment without the usual weak point, the zipper for the sleeping bag compartment is missing, it's just one sack.
Under the lid is a flat zippered pocket, on top of the lid is another well accessible pocket with more volume. And inside at the back is a flat but relatively large water bladder pocket with velcro closure.

The Sting is approximately constructed like the Karrimor SF Sabre 45 but a bit larger. The main difference are the PALS / MOLLE straps at the belly and more important is that the Sting has different to the Karrimor SF Sabre 45 a very well adjustable back length. So, if you are of average height, both are an option for you. But if you are rather tall or rather small, the Sting is the better idea.

Sting version 1 with down closing zippers at the side pouches has no compression straps at the sides of the main compartment, current Berghaus side pouches that look like will fit perfectly. I tried it out.

Sting version 2 has compression straps at the sides and the zippers close upwards like the British issued side pouches in the same colour if we talk about DPM and they fit here.

Otherwise you would mount the side pouches upside down.

Without any doubt it's the best to buy the Sting already with side pouches.

Olive Stings are very rare. Black ones are rather rare but you can find them in Dutch shops. The Sting in DPM is easy to find. The youngest Sting rucksacks are made in NFP, the new Dutch camouflage pattern. One can get them too, a bit more expensive.

I payed approximately 70 € for a used but nearly new looking Sting DPM rucksack last weak and got it in Hildesheim in Germanys oldest Military surplus shop Räer (Raeer). Dutch Milsurp shops offer them often a bit more expensive but tell you more about the conditions they offer and offer all colours apart from plain olive green.
The Arwy versions are made in Belgium, the Lowe Alpine versions are Asian I think but seem to be very good as well. The construction was created by Lowe Alpine, Arwy continues to make them exclusively for the Dutch army in license.

They are more robust than most current civil models but otherwise not insanely over built or heavy.

That's a rucksack that you can try out without regrets because you could sell it for the same price you payed.

From that point one could think about Savotta Jääkari L, KarrimorSF Sabres, Berghaus Atlas or Crusader or whatever, which are very similar, but larger or smaller and slightly different. But the Sting has a good allround size and well thought out construction, it's out developed and army approved and for the low price absolutely no fault.

All similar options are usually much more expensive and I am quite unsure if you will notice the differences in real use, apart from the size of course.

The KarrimorSF Sabre 45 isn't much smaller, but the Berghaus Atlas and Crusader and Dutch army (Lowe Alpine / Arwy) Sarracen are much bigger than the Sting.
The 110 to 120 litres are nice to have for winter camping but for a short hiking tour in the warmer month you start to get packing problems with a 110 litres Atlas because they are much larger than needed. One can manage that but it isn't optimal. And different to the Atlas the Crusader has no compression straps at the sides, what's not so good in my opinion if we talk about such a big rucksack. Crusaders and Atlas rucksacks can be bought used from the Dutch and German army, the slightly smaller Vulcan as British army surplus. Or you can get all of them factory new. But the prices of the used ones are so high that I decided to get a factory new Atlas. You have to pay attention and compare the prices!

And yes. I first bought the Atlas factory new and find it great. But afterwards I bought a used Sting. Simply because I don't need 110 litres volume all the year round. Would I have to choose just one I would take the Atlas of course, but around Berlin we can get pretty cold weather and I travel with the stuff all year round. By railway train.
110 litres of equipment and still easily portable is high state of the art. If you don't pay attention you suddenly have 30 kg in there. That's not so funny.
 
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Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
4,079
1,774
Berlin
PS:

To the belly of the Dutch Sting (Version1 DPM) fit from left to right the following issued British Army pouches (Osprey):

MTP Water bottle pouch
(1 free loop)
MTP Utility pouch
MTP Utility pouch
(1 free loop)
MTP Water bottle pouch.

Like that the PALS field is full.

Instead of that 4 utility pouches will fit well, 4 water bottle pouches might fit not, so my guess, because they are 1 cm wider than the utility pouch. There is missing the free loop in the middle to do so, I think.

Under that one can attach a roll mat outside. There are sewn on straps to do so. It would stabilise a standing rucksack.

On top one could still attach pouches that use the American ALICE system, for example a few little compass pouches for smaller content. But for larger ones there is a hand loop in the way. Might become impractical anyway, because there goes the end of the main compartment flap.
 

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