Bears and campfire

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Lush

Forager
Apr 22, 2007
231
0
51
Netherlands
Hi all,

I ask myself for some time: "How save would one be from bears if you have a big campfire going, right next to you?"

Anyone that can answer that question? And what about moose and other animals in the boreal forests? How scared are they from a burning fire? It is something I really don't know. I suppose it helps to keep them at distance, but then again, bears love food...

thanks,
Lush
 

Brian.T

Tenderfoot
May 24, 2007
84
0
Worthing, West Sussex
Hi all,

I ask myself for some time: "How save would one be from bears if you have a big campfire going, right next to you?"

Anyone that can answer that question? And what about moose and other animals in the boreal forests? How scared are they from a burning fire? It is something I really don't know. I suppose it helps to keep them at distance, but then again, bears love food...

thanks,
Lush
Bears love food and can smell it from a long way off. Make sure all food and cooking stuffs are kept a long way away. Im not sure how well fires keep bears away to be honest, but logic tells me that its better to have a fire than not have one. :)
 

Lush

Forager
Apr 22, 2007
231
0
51
Netherlands
Bears love food and can smell it from a long way off. Make sure all food and cooking stuffs are kept a long way away. Im not sure how well fires keep bears away to be honest, but logic tells me that its better to have a fire than not have one. :)

Yo thanks Brian :).

I am still wondering (of course this isn't a question with an exact answer to it) how much safer would one be with a BIG fire? Let's say in ideal conditions (having an axe to gather wood ect.) Apart from the rules to sleep, eat and and store your food apart. It might also apply to other wild animals (like wolves and cougars, although I don't think wolves pose a big thread to a healty adult person.)
 

falling rain

Native
Oct 17, 2003
1,737
29
Woodbury Devon
Good question Lush.

I don't know really. As far as I understood it all animals are scared of fire without exception. I suppose a bear would be the same but maybe it'd depend on how pee'd off it was. I wouldn't imagine a bear would go through fire to get your food, when it could look for it's own without the need of going through fire (easier option, but if you didn't have a fire then your food maybe it's easier option) but if the fire and yourself were between the bear and it's cubs for example it maybe so angry/defensive that it'd charge through the fire at you to protect it's cubs. Do bears have adrenaline :confused: If someone was threatening my lad, i'd run through a campfire to defend him that's for sure.
 

bloodline

Settler
Feb 18, 2005
586
2
65
England
Do the bears associate a fire with man cooking therefore a source of food? I know animals are scared of fire but have bears got so used to us on their "turf" that they are not as afraid of it as they should be.
 

Eric_Methven

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 20, 2005
3,600
42
73
Durham City, County Durham
All animals instinctively associate fire with danger. So did man at one time in the dark and distant past. When man learned to create an control fire, he learned to control his fear of it. On the whole, animals have not learned that degree of control. The exception being domesticated animals such as pet dogs. They're still scared of fire, but will tolerate a camp fire because their master (pack leader) shows no fear.

Bears and other wild animals will move away from the smell of woodsmoke because they asociate it with forest fires. We know that even traditional enemies such as wolves and deer will co-exist without attack during a forest fire - at least until the danger is over, simply because the fire is a greater danger than the animal preditor.

So, nearly all animals will avoid your camp site if you have a fire going. It doesn't have to be a big fire, a simple cooking fire will suffice. The fact that it is producing woodsmoke and the associated fear triggering smell will do the trick.

Bears will avoid the camp, but the smell of food may override their fear of the fire, especially if their past experiences tell them that that type of fire won't burn them up, and they may well get a meal at the same time. That's the problem man has given himself, feeding the nice cuddly bears from the safety of their car, then complaining when they enter the camp expecting to be fed.

The answer therefore is, have a normal cooking fire, burn any scraps of food left after the meal, wash your pots straight away and cache your food, well away from the camp and above bear reaching height. By well away, I'd say no less than a couple of hundred metres. On proper camp sites, there should be bear proof metal boxes to store your food in, but in wilderness areas, sling a rope between two trees and haul your food up so it hangs in the middle.

Also, regardles of how tempting, don't keep snack and bars of chocolate in your tent for a midnight snack, or you might find yourself becoming the snack instead.

Common sense is the answer here. Don't give the bears an excuse to come anywhere near you and that, and the coimbination of fire should keep you safe.

I wouldn't worry about large herbivores like moose either, they'll avoid you like the plague and will smell you long before you see them.

Eric
 

Lush

Forager
Apr 22, 2007
231
0
51
Netherlands
All animals instinctively associate fire with danger. So did man at one time in the dark and distant past. When man learned to create an control fire, he learned to control his fear of it. On the whole, animals have not learned that degree of control. The exception being domesticated animals such as pet dogs. They're still scared of fire, but will tolerate a camp fire because their master (pack leader) shows no fear.

Bears and other wild animals will move away from the smell of woodsmoke because they asociate it with forest fires. We know that even traditional enemies such as wolves and deer will co-exist without attack during a forest fire - at least until the danger is over, simply because the fire is a greater danger than the animal preditor.

So, nearly all animals will avoid your camp site if you have a fire going. It doesn't have to be a big fire, a simple cooking fire will suffice. The fact that it is producing woodsmoke and the associated fear triggering smell will do the trick.

Bears will avoid the camp, but the smell of food may override their fear of the fire, especially if their past experiences tell them that that type of fire won't burn them up, and they may well get a meal at the same time. That's the problem man has given himself, feeding the nice cuddly bears from the safety of their car, then complaining when they enter the camp expecting to be fed.

The answer therefore is, have a normal cooking fire, burn any scraps of food left after the meal, wash your pots straight away and cache your food, well away from the camp and above bear reaching height. By well away, I'd say no less than a couple of hundred metres. On proper camp sites, there should be bear proof metal boxes to store your food in, but in wilderness areas, sling a rope between two trees and haul your food up so it hangs in the middle.

Also, regardles of how tempting, don't keep snack and bars of chocolate in your tent for a midnight snack, or you might find yourself becoming the snack instead.

Common sense is the answer here. Don't give the bears an excuse to come anywhere near you and that, and the coimbination of fire should keep you safe.

I wouldn't worry about large herbivores like moose either, they'll avoid you like the plague and will smell you long before you see them.

Eric

Thanks Eric,

Your answer is about the same as I would have expected by using common sense. Including the part where you say that bears do learn and some might loose their natural fear for campfires! I am just trying to find out how much of a false sense of security a campfire could provide us with. Quite a bit, I suspect... Very nice discussion!

Moose btw. can be even more dangerous then bears when in heat (ok, only a around oktober, but still.) The male ones will attack and come after you when you are in their path or even approach. They are even known to held ppl. hostage in their cabbins for days! They can behave very aggressive and downright mad. I am talking Canada and surroundings here.

Imagine using a burning torch or burning log to fight off an animal. That must be something almost all animals must be afraid of. But than again, most of the time when ppl. are nailed by animals they don't have the time to do anything :(

Lush
 

Voivode

Forager
Oct 24, 2006
204
5
48
Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
I have lived and played in bear (and moose, since they seem to keep popping up!) country for most of my life. The short answer is yes, fires keep the animals away but bears are curious and persistent scavengers. If the animal in question is already habituated to humans and their food, a campfire will not deter him from entering your camp. The methods already outlined (clean cooksite, hanging cache 100m from sleeping area, etc) are the techniques used out here. In fact, the recommendation is to cook and cache well away from your tent; we often sleep well away from the fire pit. Burning your leftover foodstuffs isn't reliable as little bits are often left behind to tempt the bears. Better to cache your leftovers with your food bag and pack it out, particularly smelly things like meat and fish.

Keep a clean campsite, don't bring food in your tent and don't worry about keeping a fire burning all night and you should not have any problems.
 

Lush

Forager
Apr 22, 2007
231
0
51
Netherlands
I have lived and played in bear (and moose, since they seem to keep popping up!) country for most of my life. The short answer is yes, fires keep the animals away but bears are curious and persistent scavengers. If the animal in question is already habituated to humans and their food, a campfire will not deter him from entering your camp. The methods already outlined (clean cooksite, hanging cache 100m from sleeping area, etc) are the techniques used out here. In fact, the recommendation is to cook and cache well away from your tent; we often sleep well away from the fire pit. Burning your leftover foodstuffs isn't reliable as little bits are often left behind to tempt the bears. Better to cache your leftovers with your food bag and pack it out, particularly smelly things like meat and fish.

Keep a clean campsite, don't bring food in your tent and don't worry about keeping a fire burning all night and you should not have any problems.


Cool. Thanks. Advice from a native from bear country. Couldn't be better :)

Lush
 
When I travel in the bush all my food is in one waterproof bag with a pull string ( like a sleeping bag bag). After a meal, if I'm hanging around, everything goes back in the bag tied to a rope, over a tree limb and hoisted at least 4 or 5 metres. Dishes are done and I bury bones scraps etc... like you would with your poop. I've never had a problem.

My partner, son and I live in the bush .For a good time We'Il sit in a stream and pan. Lots of bears. If you don't bother them they won't bother you. It is not a big deal.

Cougars are unpredictable. They will take small lone children. Imagine what your cat does with a mouse. Watch your kids in the bush. Your danger senses should kick in if you see a cougar around or near your camp as well. You should never see a cougar in the wild.

I watched a cow moose rush our dogs one March morning and holy **** you don't want to **** a mama moose off.

The only times I've heard of people getting into trouble is by poor managment of their food.
Women menstrating can be a problem. A couple of years ago a woman was dragged from her tent by a bear, a grizzly, it was atttracted to the smell of blood. My partner and I have hiked for months in the boreal and coastal forests amongst black and grizzly bears and she has never had a problem.

I've slept many night in the forest with no campfire. Sometimes when the mosquitoes are gone we'll fall asleep in our bags under the stars without a tent. It's beautiful out there.

My two cent worth.

http://www.caribooblades.com
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,423
2,449
Bedfordshire
As I understand things, the fear, or lack there of, exhibited by animals is down to instinct, backed up with a lot of practical experience and learned behaviour with a heavy emphasis on the latter. From what I have seen, animals have instinctive reactions, but not instinctive knowledge.

How many animals do you think have been burned in a fire and escaped? How many have been swatted in the face with a burning brand? It must be a truly tiny number, in which case, how can one use those as motivations for a species?

In the case of camp fires, if an animal has neither experience of man, nor of forest fires, I can’t see that the fire would be a specific deterrent. It would be new, and animals ARE cautious about the unfamiliar. I have read in several places that African game animals are not put off from entering by camp fires, in no small part due to the frequency of naturally occurring bush fires. If they were to run at the mere whiff of smoke they would never stop running at some times of the year.

Then you have the question of habituation.

Most folks would assume that the sound of a gun shot would be like a siren to wild animals and send them all running the other way, but bears in the US and Canada often associate the sound of a shot with the opportunity of easy food and can come towards the sound at a run. There was a time when it was assumed that animals had an instinctive fear of humans. There isn’t a lot of doubt that such behaviour was learned and inherited over generations as a result of human hunters. Again in the US, where hunting of some animals has been halted, that old fear has been quickly eroded and the number of confrontations and conflicts with predators is on the up.

I would put more faith in keeping the smell of food off my gear and away from my sleeping area than I would in having a great blaze of a fire.
 

traderran

Settler
May 6, 2007
571
0
73
TEXAS USA
Hi all,

I ask myself for some time: "How save would one be from bears if you have a big campfire going, right next to you?"

Anyone that can answer that question? And what about moose and other animals in the boreal forests? How scared are they from a burning fire? It is something I really don't know. I suppose it helps to keep them at distance, but then again, bears love food...

thanks,
Lush

Yes a big fire is great for attracting the Bear And yes they like good food. For your
Safety wait until he is eating the food. Then shoot him in the back of the head.
This requires tow things A .44 handgun and a grill for those delouses bare chops
Great eating.:AR15firin
 

Biddlesby

Settler
May 16, 2005
972
4
Frankfurt
How about a nice ring of fire, like in The Edge? Its easy - pick up perfectly shaped logs from your small fire, blazing furiously from one end even after they have been removed from their neighbours, then fling them randomly into the damp forest around you. Soon you will have a perfect ring of fire that will not spread nor die down all night. The bears will be p***ing themselves.
 

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