Couldn't belive this when I read it:
http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/72085
Better watch what you say and do when you edit posts mr moderators!
Be careful what you say - The Times They Are A-Changin'
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Couldn't belive this when I read it:
http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/72085
Better watch what you say and do when you edit posts mr moderators!
I am afraid to say that they soon start to burn books again.
I guess you guys can understand why I left my old country and became a swedish citizen.
cheers
Abbe
I guess you guys can understand why I left my old country and became a swedish citizen.
cheers
Abbe
I think there are arguments going on over in the US right now, to decide whether forum operators are to be classed
I believe that the French have already decided that forum operators are to be considered the same way as publishers.
If several states go the same way, I expect the others will follow.
K.
- as content providers (i.e. not liable for posted comments),
- or as publishers (i.e. liable for posted comments).
I believe that the French have already decided that forum operators are to be considered the same way as publishers.
If several states go the same way, I expect the others will follow.
K.
andyn said:
Couldn't belive this when I read it:
http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/72085
Better watch what you say and do when you edit posts mr moderators!
The effect will be to give people less freedom to speak their minds.
I believe in Britain, test cases have already decided forum operators are publishers.Keith_Beef said:
To the moderators. It might be worth giving users of the forum the right to remove their own previous posts, at least it would free up space at best it could protect you in the months ahead as you do not know what repressive legislation is around the corner.
Jamie
Jamie
That is a double edged sword. On other forums I have appreciated being able to delete a post, or thread I started, but then I have only done so when I have realised it was a dim question, and that's why no one is answering 
On the other hand, there have been cases where people have started, or contributed, to arguments, then gone back and deleted all their inflamatory remarks, so leaving everyone else's comments out of context. Stuff like that can just as easily increase the work load for forum admin.
On the other hand, there have been cases where people have started, or contributed, to arguments, then gone back and deleted all their inflamatory remarks, so leaving everyone else's comments out of context. Stuff like that can just as easily increase the work load for forum admin.
My 2p for what its worth.
I think we don't have to worry that much - though that doesn't mean we don't have to be carefull, take precautions or be aware (keep an eye on) of further progress in this field.
Several arguments:
1. It's jurisprudence by a German first instance court. This court has over-ruled former legislation.
- German law doesn't apply to UK forums as far as I'm aware. A UK judge though can look around for precedents if he has a look-a-like case and doesn't know on how to do justice.
IIRC when you become a member (whether or not subscribed) of BCUK there's something that says your subjected to commen sense / behaviour, UK law, and international law, but also (in my case) the law of your own country (you can see it as a contract between me and BCUK, that - in case I **** things up, and Tony goes and sue me, things will be sorted by UK law, so he's on homeground, and I have the disadvantage ).
I don't know the exact text and it doesn't really matter. It's just a case to make sure that if there's a case that goes to court the judge has to use UK law (lex fori). (Almost) every lawyer can tell how this is best achieved.
- First instance court: if Heise Online goes in appeal (that would be my free advice to them
), there's a chance the first instance court will be overruled by the second instance court.
- The first instance court has overruled (former) legislation ...
Even judges can go wrong
Though in this there's a difference between the UK and Germany (and NL). To explain diifferences would go to far, and this is not the place to discuss this.
2. On the Heise forum there was placed a (link to a) script.
I would class this as illegal software (and the like) if this is done on BCUK. Thus one would break the rules (I would go for an explanation these (rules) are there to protect the forum, its members, but also third parties (in the Heise case the company that got damaged by the script).
By this you would (IMO) prevent being accused of
Though, didn't check the rules on the Heise forum, but that could be interesting on a rainy sunday afternoon
3. Calls to overload a company's servers would not be allowed on BCUK. I would class it as flamming and the like (haven't got the rules and regs at hand, so another better option would be possible aswell) .
The BCUK mod's already do a great job. They keep out a lot of junk we (normal members) absolutely have no knowledge of. Only every now and then a
pops up. It's up to US to notify the mod's.
Keeping the forum clean isn't just a job for the mods, but for every single BCUK member. Starting by ones posts. Stick to the rules.
4.
Define "press"... in this context I think it's the news gathering "industry". BCUK isn't. It's a forum dedicated to bushcraft (not general interest, but specific topic), not to the latest news (general interest, as in newspapers, etc.) in Iraq, stock exchange, royalty or sports .
5. If every single post must be checked before it appears on the forum it has a nasty smell of censorship on it ... Something which is forbidden (in (amongst) the dutch constitution,) and based in several international treaties, of which Germany is subjected too.
What is the original function and meaning of a forum? Why did the Romans used it? It's the base of democracy (no, I'm not going talk politics).
You can't (IMHO) censor a forum, only controle it.
Enough of my boring judicial talk Sorry about that, must be a study related default 
Mods - If this talk isn't appropiate, please delete or let me know and I'll edit my post 
I think we don't have to worry that much - though that doesn't mean we don't have to be carefull, take precautions or be aware (keep an eye on) of further progress in this field.
Several arguments:
1. It's jurisprudence by a German first instance court. This court has over-ruled former legislation.
- German law doesn't apply to UK forums as far as I'm aware. A UK judge though can look around for precedents if he has a look-a-like case and doesn't know on how to do justice.
IIRC when you become a member (whether or not subscribed) of BCUK there's something that says your subjected to commen sense / behaviour, UK law, and international law, but also (in my case) the law of your own country (you can see it as a contract between me and BCUK, that - in case I **** things up, and Tony goes and sue me, things will be sorted by UK law, so he's on homeground, and I have the disadvantage
).I don't know the exact text and it doesn't really matter. It's just a case to make sure that if there's a case that goes to court the judge has to use UK law (lex fori). (Almost) every lawyer can tell how this is best achieved.
- First instance court: if Heise Online goes in appeal (that would be my free advice to them
), there's a chance the first instance court will be overruled by the second instance court.- The first instance court has overruled (former) legislation ...
Even judges can go wrong
Though in this there's a difference between the UK and Germany (and NL). To explain diifferences would go to far, and this is not the place to discuss this.
2. On the Heise forum there was placed a (link to a) script.
I would class this as illegal software (and the like) if this is done on BCUK. Thus one would break the rules (I would go for an explanation these (rules) are there to protect the forum, its members, but also third parties (in the Heise case the company that got damaged by the script).
By this you would (IMO) prevent being accused of
.
Though, didn't check the rules on the Heise forum, but that could be interesting on a rainy sunday afternoon
3. Calls to overload a company's servers would not be allowed on BCUK. I would class it as flamming and the like (haven't got the rules and regs at hand, so another better option would be possible aswell) .
The BCUK mod's already do a great job. They keep out a lot of junk we (normal members) absolutely have no knowledge of. Only every now and then a
pops up. It's up to US to notify the mod's.Keeping the forum clean isn't just a job for the mods, but for every single BCUK member. Starting by ones posts. Stick to the rules.
4.
Define "press"... in this context I think it's the news gathering "industry". BCUK isn't. It's a forum dedicated to bushcraft (not general interest, but specific topic), not to the latest news (general interest, as in newspapers, etc.) in Iraq, stock exchange, royalty or sports .
5. If every single post must be checked before it appears on the forum it has a nasty smell of censorship on it ... Something which is forbidden (in (amongst) the dutch constitution,) and based in several international treaties, of which Germany is subjected too.
What is the original function and meaning of a forum? Why did the Romans used it? It's the base of democracy (no, I'm not going talk politics).
You can't (IMHO) censor a forum, only controle it.
Enough of my boring judicial talk
Sorry about that, must be a study related default Mods - If this talk isn't appropiate, please delete or let me know and I'll edit my post
That was pretty well thought out Johan, nice to get an opinion from someone who has a reasonable understanding of the law.
In the end the relationship between the forum and its members comes down very much to trust.
The people running the forum trust the members not to break the laws either of thier country the country where the forum is based or international law.
At the same time the membership of the forum trust that the mods and admin will protect thier interests (in the case of paying members), will try to keep it interesting / informative and will keep the forum running smoothly and free from censorship.
That is not to say that everything that is posted can stay, if for any reason a post breaches the rules then it can be removed, at the same time things that fall into grey areas may also be removed because they come down to human judgement and sometimes it is better to err on the side of caution.
As a mod (and a member like anyone else) I am subject to all the rules and regulations that anyone else is subject to, however I then have to apply a certain amount of rules to everything and anything that I post so as not to abuse the trust that has been placed in me, these are not written rules, but rules that I personally apply to my posts.
Rules under the section 69 moderator act for BCUK, bringing BCUK into disrepute could end up with me confined to a built up area for upto 9 months
In the end the relationship between the forum and its members comes down very much to trust.
The people running the forum trust the members not to break the laws either of thier country the country where the forum is based or international law.
At the same time the membership of the forum trust that the mods and admin will protect thier interests (in the case of paying members), will try to keep it interesting / informative and will keep the forum running smoothly and free from censorship.
That is not to say that everything that is posted can stay, if for any reason a post breaches the rules then it can be removed, at the same time things that fall into grey areas may also be removed because they come down to human judgement and sometimes it is better to err on the side of caution.
As a mod (and a member like anyone else) I am subject to all the rules and regulations that anyone else is subject to, however I then have to apply a certain amount of rules to everything and anything that I post so as not to abuse the trust that has been placed in me, these are not written rules, but rules that I personally apply to my posts.
Rules under the section 69 moderator act for BCUK, bringing BCUK into disrepute could end up with me confined to a built up area for upto 9 months
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