Barely legal EDC?

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daveO

Full Member
Jun 22, 2009
1,373
449
South Wales
I just saw a video where the linked knife below is mentioned as a UK EDC legal knife. I thought this must be a mistake but Heinnie also list it as EDC legal carry. I just thought I'd see what the opinion is here but as far as I can see this could/would be viewed as a small fixed blade with a handle extension not a folding knife. It's similar to a Svord Peasant but the extra grip on the tang would make it fairly usable without the handle. What do you guys reckon?

https://www.heinnie.com/tops-tac-raze-friction-folder
 

hughtrimble

Full Member
Jan 23, 2012
294
13
UK/France
Does it lock? No.
Is its cutting edge over three inches long? No.

So it's ticking the boxes for carry. But no one actually knows how any supposedly non-locking folder will be classified until it goes to court. Until then, it's pure conjecture.
 

Klenchblaize

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 25, 2005
2,586
125
62
Greensand Ridge
Irrespective of ‘legal’ status it’s the kind of knife that invites unwanted attention as it looks aggressive IMHO. Clearly that shouldn’t have any bearing but we all know people still make judgments based on visual perception:

1293466202-69985300.jpg

tptraz01_1.jpg


K
 
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BillyBlade

Settler
Jul 27, 2011
748
2
Lanarkshire
It might be legal but I wouldn't carry it. It sends quite the message about the owner.

I would say, and I'm being generous here, that it's within the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law.
 

daveO

Full Member
Jun 22, 2009
1,373
449
South Wales
Does it lock? No.

Sorry I should clarify that my point is that the blade could be viewed a fixed blade knife if you remove the handle. I can see why it's sold as EDC legal but I don't think it actually is. The pic below shows it half open.

hqdefault.jpg


take the handle off and add paracord and you've got a similar knife to the Tops knife below which isn't sold as legal...

31-GICQDmCL.jpg
 

Highbinder

Full Member
Jul 11, 2010
1,257
2
Under a tree
It sends quite the message about the owner.

In your opinion. In mine it is just a black friction folder, it doesn't look particularly tactical or even aggressive, so I'm not really sure what judgement you're making or what that knife seemingly portrays about the owner.

As hughtrimble says, it falls within the legal parameters (nonlocking and <3cm) so I'd argue that context of use is the deciding factor on how a police officer would address the knife.

Personally I have been subjected to stop and search whilst carrying a UKPK on me. It raised an eyebrow due to the style, but ultimately a calm explanation of what it is (design principles behind the UKPK model) and the fact that I was confident in its legality was enough to satisfy the officer. The truth of the matter is no police officer knows every law, but that does not mean I am going to feel compelled carry a 'friendly' looking knife like a SAK on the chance they mistake my legal knife as illegal.
 

hughlle1

Nomad
Nov 4, 2015
297
7
London
Sorry I should clarify that my point is that the blade could be viewed a fixed blade knife if you remove the handle. I can see why it's sold as EDC legal but I don't think it actually is. The pic below shows it half open.

hqdefault.jpg


take the handle off and add paracord and you've got a similar knife to the Tops knife below which isn't sold as legal...

31-GICQDmCL.jpg

That argument can be levvied at many friction folders. As a friction folder, it would appear to conform with Uk law, the moment you do as you've suggested, you've modified it to (in their view) be an offensive weapon, and you'd be nicked. A bottle of beer isn't illegal, but modify it with a hard surface and it's now an offensive weapon :) In theory any folding knife could be argued to be fixed blade based on your argument. Remove handle, wrap a bunch of duck tape around half the blade, now you've a fixed blade knife.
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,042
368
none
I'd put a pretty penny on the CPS running with this one given the chance.

In the end case law will sort it out.
 

hughtrimble

Full Member
Jan 23, 2012
294
13
UK/France
That argument can be levvied at many friction folders. As a friction folder, it would appear to conform with Uk law, the moment you do as you've suggested, you've modified it to (in their view) be an offensive weapon, and you'd be nicked. A bottle of beer isn't illegal, but modify it with a hard surface and it's now an offensive weapon :) In theory any folding knife could be argued to be fixed blade based on your argument. Remove handle, wrap a bunch of duck tape around half the blade, now you've a fixed blade knife.

Very much this. Remove the handle from any folding knife and you have a fixed blade. A very impractical one in most cases, but still a fixed blade.

Would I carry the one in the OP? No, but not due to legal issues; I think it's hideous and the extended tang on many friction folders makes them mighty uncomfortable in pocket!
 

daveO

Full Member
Jun 22, 2009
1,373
449
South Wales
That argument can be levvied at many friction folders. As a friction folder, it would appear to conform with Uk law, the moment you do as you've suggested, you've modified it to (in their view) be an offensive weapon, and you'd be nicked. A bottle of beer isn't illegal, but modify it with a hard surface and it's now an offensive weapon :) In theory any folding knife could be argued to be fixed blade based on your argument. Remove handle, wrap a bunch of duck tape around half the blade, now you've a fixed blade knife.

I understand this arguement but how far can you realistically take a friction folder before you cross the line? Would the below still be legal if it worked as a friction folder?

hqdefault_zpsgmuwvl1h.jpg
 

hughlle1

Nomad
Nov 4, 2015
297
7
London
I understand this arguement but how far can you realistically take a friction folder before you cross the line? Would the below still be legal if it worked as a friction folder?

hqdefault_zpsgmuwvl1h.jpg

Does it have a folding blade? Yes.

Is it a locking blade? Nope.

Government definition of a locking knife.

"have blades that can be locked and refolded only by pressing a button"

It is a folding knife without a lock with a sub 3" blade.

So based on the governments own advice, you don't even need a good reason to carry it.

Take the handle off and it would indeed be illegal. Only reason I could think that you might get pulled up (ignoring using it as a weapon etc) is if you happened to have the tools required to remove the handle in your pocket at the same time.
 

BillyBlade

Settler
Jul 27, 2011
748
2
Lanarkshire
In your opinion. In mine it is just a black friction folder, it doesn't look particularly tactical or even aggressive, so I'm not really sure what judgement you're making or what that knife seemingly portrays about the owner.

As hughtrimble says, it falls within the legal parameters (nonlocking and <3cm) so I'd argue that context of use is the deciding factor on how a police officer would address the knife.

Personally I have been subjected to stop and search whilst carrying a UKPK on me. It raised an eyebrow due to the style, but ultimately a calm explanation of what it is (design principles behind the UKPK model) and the fact that I was confident in its legality was enough to satisfy the officer. The truth of the matter is no police officer knows every law, but that does not mean I am going to feel compelled carry a 'friendly' looking knife like a SAK on the chance they mistake my legal knife as illegal.

As I said it's my opinion and I don't feel the need to expansively detail why nor justify the same.

All I'll say is this: it looks like the sort of thing someone with a 'Taliban Hunting Club' t-shirt and a zombie patch on his daysack would carry. Ironically when I bump into those types in the woods (and yes it's happened) and I ask what service they were in, it usually turns out they never did get around to actually joining.

So if it's your thing then all well and good to you. I've no dog in this fight but I'll stick with my SAK for everyday carry I think.
 

brambles

Settler
Apr 26, 2012
745
42
Aberdeenshire
Irrespective of &#8216;legal&#8217; status it&#8217;s the kind of knife that invites unwanted attention as it looks aggressive IMHO. Clearly that shouldn&#8217;t have any bearing but we all know people still make judgments based on visual perception:

1293466202-69985300.jpg

tptraz01_1.jpg


K

Bright colours and wording suggestive of use for violence ( ARMY KNIFE!!! ) - what you've got there is a banned weapon.


See where nonsensical muddled thinking gets you?
 

hughlle1

Nomad
Nov 4, 2015
297
7
London
My mistake. Thought it looked quite Neutral.


K

To be fair, it is. But that's not necessarily how the public may see it, or any blade. I bought a sushi platter and pulled out my green LTC to cut a piece in half to share. My partner started panicking thinking people would phone the police simply because it was a knife, let alone a scary looking one. No accounting for the irrational nature of some people.
 

KenThis

Full Member
Jun 14, 2016
825
121
Cardiff
Sorry to hijack but what do people think about the Viper Dan2?

https://www.heinnie.com/viper-dan2-carbon-fibre

I bought it recently because it ticked a lot of boxes for me. It is UK legal as in a friction folder with an 'Action Stopper' mechanism (feels like a slip joint once opened).
I can open it one handed (there is a detente midway which means it opens in two movements not one) but it's definitely easier using two hands.

I ask because I really don't like 'tactical' knives but I very much like the look of this one, however a couple of non-knife people who I showed it to felt it was way too aggressive looking. I've been a bit put off carrying it in public because I like having a pocket knife I can be confident isn't scary looking if I use it (so back to the SAK and Kershaw PUB for now).

To be fair though although it is a very accomplished tool, I bought it as much for it's aesthetic and the very pleasing and tactile opening, as for it's cutting ability, so really it's elevated from just a tool for me now.
I'd be interested to know who would and wouldn't carry it...

EDIT: Sorry also wanted to say that the knife shared by the OP, although not my personal cup of tea, is (depending on dimensions) clearly legal. That's the problem with the law defining what can be carried. Common sense might suggest that it's aggressive, more like a weapon than an opinel, but friction folders (of a certain size) are legal whereas locking knives (like the opinel) are not without a good reason.
 
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hughlle1

Nomad
Nov 4, 2015
297
7
London
I carry a dan2 (purple is the best colour :p) around London with me most days (that or a TBS boar). It certainly comes across like a full size locking knife, why I bought it, it is a great knife with a fantastic functional blade. It is completely legal though, so I couldn't care what the public think. It's not like I'm waving it under their nose, I'm just a guy on a bench cutting his fruit up.
 
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