Banned dogs - thoughts
- Thread starter Scottieoutdoors
- Start date
That's not humanising in my eyes, that's being a dog. Humanising is giving the dog the same status and permissions as the other humans in the household. All animals have a heirachy packs of dogs have alphas and betas. In my eyes the humans are the alphas, the dogs are lower an should understand that. Not with aggression or fear, but with love and firmness. Humanising as an example is those handbag dogs, dogs that eat at the same table or plate at the same time as the humans. Owners that reward their dog no matter what, even if it's unwanted behavior
Example dog urinates in house "oh poor puppy! Never mind you are so cute! Have a treat, good dog! "
Dog now thinks peeing in the house is a good thing, can you see where I'm coming from?
Canines and other pack animals use negative reinforcement. Humans are the only ones that use positive, it's confusing for an animal that's genetically hardwired for one to understand the other.
Theres a vast difference to loving your companion to humanising.
Most basic tool I use is food and treats. Dog knows when it's dinner time, they have a biological clock, he knows that without me he won't eat, like the alpha leads the hunt, kind of like a mutual respect.
Treats, if he does as I ask he gets a treat, if not then he doesn't. He knows by no reviving the treat that he didn't do as I asked, and will therfore learn.
I a pack the higher ranking members will physically correct any lower ranking members. Same principle, but I use food and voice not aggression and violence.
Put it this way, my boy. Is so respectful that I could put a fresh blood drenched t bone in front of him, and if I say leave it, it will stay there for a week if I don't tell him he can have it, but we also cuddle on the sofa, play fetch, "find it" is his favourite game.
Sent from my VNE-LX1 using Tapatalk
But just to pour petrol on the fire, it's just been discovered that American pit bull sperm is being used in the UK to breed XL bullys.
www.telegraph.co.uk
www.telegraph.co.uk
Like I said, the breeders only care about their bank account, not what that dog could do to a child or a family.
Stop buying these dogs, and the problem will go away.
I'm going to share a story, I'll warn you it's graphic, and adim please feel free to delete and sincere apologies for any lines crossed. I'm willing to risk being banned to show how serious the situation of dangerous bull X breeds is.
My mate in America, his nephew was killed at the age of 3 by a cross breed, pit bull x Staffordshire bull terrier. The children's parents couldn't stop it, watched it happen, the more the kid screamed the worse the dog became.
Boys father killed himself 2 years later.
This is how choice of dog can horrifically destroy your own or someone else's family.
Sorry if it's an horrific story, but if people thought about things like that when choosing a dog, these aggressive breeds would die out.
200ish years ago we killed all the wolves in the UK. 200 years later we are breeding dogs just as dangerous and unpredictable because they make us feel/look good.
Sent from my VNE-LX1 using Tapatalk
Pit bull semen from America used to breed XL Bullies in UK
US kennels charging up to £16,000 to ship frozen material abroad to create the large dogs
www.telegraph.co.uk
Half of all XL Bully dogs in Britain descend from 'Killer Kimbo'
Research has shown how decades of inbreeding has produced generations of violent animals
www.telegraph.co.uk
Like I said, the breeders only care about their bank account, not what that dog could do to a child or a family.
Stop buying these dogs, and the problem will go away.
I'm going to share a story, I'll warn you it's graphic, and adim please feel free to delete and sincere apologies for any lines crossed. I'm willing to risk being banned to show how serious the situation of dangerous bull X breeds is.
My mate in America, his nephew was killed at the age of 3 by a cross breed, pit bull x Staffordshire bull terrier. The children's parents couldn't stop it, watched it happen, the more the kid screamed the worse the dog became.
Boys father killed himself 2 years later.
This is how choice of dog can horrifically destroy your own or someone else's family.
Sorry if it's an horrific story, but if people thought about things like that when choosing a dog, these aggressive breeds would die out.
200ish years ago we killed all the wolves in the UK. 200 years later we are breeding dogs just as dangerous and unpredictable because they make us feel/look good.
Sent from my VNE-LX1 using Tapatalk
Bullys were bred from American pit bull terriers. That's the parent breed. Originally a stocky and more muscular strain was bred from and eventually split off as a separate breed recognised by its own breed association but also united kennel club. The fact they're being bred with APBT is just increasing the parent breed in the bully.
There's also a trend to increase the traits more towards the American staffie among the breed club and to reduce the prey drive. The thing is there's an American kennel club and a split from it I believe called the United kc. This is the only kc independent from the breed club to recognise the breed. They've written a breed standard as have the breed club. They're trying to raise their game I think but the ukc and the breed club do not work to the same breed standard. So in effect that's basically two sets of breed standards split into sizes. It's at the very early stages of getting recognised. Considering how long the JRT took to be recognised by uk KC I don't think it'll get recognised in the UK for years if at all.
Considering the number of cases of an attack by an illegal pit bull dog but the experts brought in cannot determine that it is an illegal pit bull dog. So now there's the bully that's not even defined but it's being banned like it's a recognised breed that's identifiable. That's the issue here, you need to separate danger from breed and go after the danger instead. In many cases these non pit bull dogs would get controlled by such a law.
There's also a trend to increase the traits more towards the American staffie among the breed club and to reduce the prey drive. The thing is there's an American kennel club and a split from it I believe called the United kc. This is the only kc independent from the breed club to recognise the breed. They've written a breed standard as have the breed club. They're trying to raise their game I think but the ukc and the breed club do not work to the same breed standard. So in effect that's basically two sets of breed standards split into sizes. It's at the very early stages of getting recognised. Considering how long the JRT took to be recognised by uk KC I don't think it'll get recognised in the UK for years if at all.
Considering the number of cases of an attack by an illegal pit bull dog but the experts brought in cannot determine that it is an illegal pit bull dog. So now there's the bully that's not even defined but it's being banned like it's a recognised breed that's identifiable. That's the issue here, you need to separate danger from breed and go after the danger instead. In many cases these non pit bull dogs would get controlled by such a law.
I read somewhere about the origins of the pack and dominance theory in domestic dogs. It came from a guy who studied wolf packs in iirc yellowstone for decades. In the 60s he wrote a bestselling book based on his discoveries with the wolf packs. Eventually it became mainstream dog behaviour training.
Since that time the originator of the theory made more discoveries and subsequent 4 books basically overturned the dominance pack theory. He said it has caused too much harm to pet dogs. The reason being domestic dogs behaved more like certain breed of wild hunting dogs. They scavenge and hunt in loose packs but they change. Basically those dogs were just making best use of resources around. Sometimes pack like behaviour, others solo.
Do you remember 90s us tv behaviourist called cesar milan? He used dominance to train dogs with aggressive tendencies. He would hold the dogs down until they submitted. In the UK there's a few dog behavioural trade bodies and organisations. One is based on academic qualifications not bought and paid for membership only. That has some of the most respected academics in animal behaviour and academically qualified dog behaviourists. I read a blog on their site about how much harm such theories and their practitioners use, especially that tv behaviourist. Dog owners think they can apply it without understanding. Results can be to make dogs worse.
In our case we operate on reward of positive behaviour. The dog wins by getting more resources in the form of treats making good dog behaviour rewarding. It works well with our dog.
Mind you we got the right breed for our lifestyle and family. A border terrier. Terriers can be difficult but the BT is intelligent and not as headstrong making them one of the more trainable terrier breeds. Plus at about 3 yo they often change from puppy to really calm dogs that often ignore other dogs presenting less issues. I think fitting the dog to your lifestyle is more important than looks or human preferences alone. If only you could legislate that into dog ownership!
Since that time the originator of the theory made more discoveries and subsequent 4 books basically overturned the dominance pack theory. He said it has caused too much harm to pet dogs. The reason being domestic dogs behaved more like certain breed of wild hunting dogs. They scavenge and hunt in loose packs but they change. Basically those dogs were just making best use of resources around. Sometimes pack like behaviour, others solo.
Do you remember 90s us tv behaviourist called cesar milan? He used dominance to train dogs with aggressive tendencies. He would hold the dogs down until they submitted. In the UK there's a few dog behavioural trade bodies and organisations. One is based on academic qualifications not bought and paid for membership only. That has some of the most respected academics in animal behaviour and academically qualified dog behaviourists. I read a blog on their site about how much harm such theories and their practitioners use, especially that tv behaviourist. Dog owners think they can apply it without understanding. Results can be to make dogs worse.
In our case we operate on reward of positive behaviour. The dog wins by getting more resources in the form of treats making good dog behaviour rewarding. It works well with our dog.
Mind you we got the right breed for our lifestyle and family. A border terrier. Terriers can be difficult but the BT is intelligent and not as headstrong making them one of the more trainable terrier breeds. Plus at about 3 yo they often change from puppy to really calm dogs that often ignore other dogs presenting less issues. I think fitting the dog to your lifestyle is more important than looks or human preferences alone. If only you could legislate that into dog ownership!
Can anyone recommend any good dog films? apart from Lassie, Benji etc...having said that I did cry during Hachi- A dogs tale. There is also a Japanese film who's name i forgot about dogs being abandoned at the north pole-Disney copied it and called it '9 Below Zero' ...I think
Cujo?
Last edited:
I sometimes wonder if it’s the same tendency that some folks have a “car arms race” mindset and insist on massive SUV for urban driving.
If you like cutie comedies then;
K-9 (1989) ( with a GSD)
Turner & Hooch (1989) (with a Dogue de Bordeaux)
If you like adventure then the older versions of 'Call of The Wild' & 'White Fang' are worth a watch.
A Feel good movie;
DOG (2022) (with a Malinois)
If you want something a little more serious;
Eyes of an Angel (1991) (with a Dobermann)
Baxter (1989) (with a bull terrier)
And if you want really dark;
White Dog (1982)
Les Chiens/The Dogs ( 1979)
Shame on us for not thinking of it sooner:
The Hound Of The Baskervilles.
The Basil Rathbone version, naturally.
The Hound Of The Baskervilles.
The Basil Rathbone version, naturally.
Actually, Baskervilles has got me thinking.
News reports of dog attacks do feed into the archetype of the 'demon dog'.
The Barghest, The Black Dog, Gytrash, Cerberus, Hell Hounds, The Wild Hunt.
These are the ones that immediately come to my mind, and I'm sure all cultures have legends of demon dogs somewhere. Not only in folktales, but in literature as well - the aforementioned Baskervilles, but also feature in Jane Eyre, both TeeDee and myself mentioned Cujo, and I bet that in your childhood there was that crazy dog that everyone spread rumours about yet no one seemed to ever encounter (ours was an infamous beast called Bruno).
Yes, it really seems like the demon dog is a Jungian archetype, so I wonder if this is also at work on our psyches (not to suggest the current attacks are anything less than real!) and what effects it may have on our responses.
News reports of dog attacks do feed into the archetype of the 'demon dog'.
The Barghest, The Black Dog, Gytrash, Cerberus, Hell Hounds, The Wild Hunt.
These are the ones that immediately come to my mind, and I'm sure all cultures have legends of demon dogs somewhere. Not only in folktales, but in literature as well - the aforementioned Baskervilles, but also feature in Jane Eyre, both TeeDee and myself mentioned Cujo, and I bet that in your childhood there was that crazy dog that everyone spread rumours about yet no one seemed to ever encounter (ours was an infamous beast called Bruno).
Yes, it really seems like the demon dog is a Jungian archetype, so I wonder if this is also at work on our psyches (not to suggest the current attacks are anything less than real!) and what effects it may have on our responses.
