Bad weather, fallen trees and a chainsaw....

[Eric_Methven]

OK, here's a question. The weather is awful, it's blowing a gale and as I'm driving down a minor road I come across a reasonably large tree right across the road.
Now in the back of my vehicle is my chainsaw an PPE gear. There are a couple of cars just sitting waiting for somebody to do something.
So, I get my kit on, start the chainsaw and start sectioning the tree (in a safe way of course). I clear a path and use the towbar and a rope to drag the big lumps off the middle of the road. Job done, people can get through now.

My question is this.... Who has the rights to the fallen timber? If I clear the obstruction, do I have any legal right to remove the wood I have cut? I know that fallen trees on private property still remain private property, but how about across the public highway?

Same question goes for when I come across sectioned trees that have already been cleared by the council. If I remove any of it for my own use, am I technicaly stealing?

Eric

 

[markie*mark0]

what tree... i cannot see any tree that fell down

 

[shaggystu]

.......Same question goes for when I come across sectioned trees that have already been cleared by the council. If I remove any of it for my own use, am I technicaly stealing?

Eric

no idea, but if you are then so am i

 

[TallMikeM]

interesting question. If you prune a tree that over hangs your property, the cut wood remains the property of the person who owns the land on which the tree is growing and technically you are supposed to give it to him (tho in the modern day and age they may not thank you for this). Without any other knowledge I would say the wood remains to property of the tree owner.
That said, I have taken no shortage of sectioned trees cut by someone else, so possibly I am a tealeaf.

 

[HillBill]

Normally, fallen trees are cleared by the landowners though this tends to be because they are the ones who who have the kit to do it. When i worked in North Yorkshire, we had a sawmill on the estate and any fallen trees went to that. Legally i think, but i'm not 100% that the tree belongs to who's land it grew on, But im sure a landowner wouldn't mind you taking some for doing the job of clearing the road for them.

 

[Rockmonkey]

Unless you are a qualified tree surgeon,a risk assesment was done on site, traffic safety signs were placed in both directions, high viz jacket was worn, public liability insurance covers you cutting that tree, and you had permition from the council, I would have helped myself to the wood, as theft of wood would be the last thing you would get done for if caught!
What wood was it?

 

[addo]

Its the landowners tree and his wood.

Although its always a rush to get the road clear, either by the council tree gang on call, contractors, or good folks like yourself Eric, and it normally gets thrown to the side, or if there is no verge or the hedges are too high onto the back of a lorry or though the chipper.

I think most landowners keep their head down when this happens, as they should in most cases have been aware thet the tree could fail, espectially when letters from the highway authority have asked them too possibly do works to the tree in question. The clean up is often more of a cost than the works required to stop the failure. This cost is hardly ever passed back to the landowner, so the ownership of the wood is all but forgotten about.

Main thing is that no one gets hurt in these situations, for the road users and the landowners benefit

 

[santaman2000]

Unless you are a qualified tree surgeon,a risk assesment was done on site....

I understand the comcept you're describing; but for a fallen tree wouldn't a logger be more approriate than a tree surgeon?

 

[stuey]

As others have said, the timber remains the property of the landowner from whence the fallen tree or part of tree originated. The only exception to this statement is where a contractor is engaged to fell, process or clear said tree and there is a contractual agreement stating that the timber and arisings become the property of the contractor. The ownership of the timber and arisings does not automatically fall to the contractor unless stated in the contract. For example, the local authority I work for retains ownership of all timber and arisings as outlined in the contract. This is not a common arrangement however as most LA's require the contractor to dispose of all arisings.
In your case, unless you had the express permission of the landowner you don't legally have the right to remove the timber from the land. However, in reality, the landowner is probably very grateful for the effort you made and is unlikely to say anything.
Bear in mind though, if there was an hse officer watching you and you were seen to be removing timber from the site you could end up in hot water as at that point they would consider you as being paid (in kind) and thus need to meet the hse and road traffic act requirements for chainsaw use on the public highway. These requirements at the least would be a recognised certificate of competence in cross cutting with a chainsaw. A site specific risk assessment referring to generic risk assessments. Full PPE. Signing, lighting and guarding in accordance to Chapter 8 of the Dept for Transport traffic signs manual. Public liability insurance usually for 10 million pounds for most LA's.

The easiest thing to do would be to have a chat either with your friendly tree officer or the local authority contractor. Clearly keep quiet about what has gone before but ask what happens to the timber. Before the upsurge in folks having woodburners and timber having a firewood value many LA's and contractors would happily give the timber away as it posed a disposal issue for them. Times have changed but you may strike lucky.

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[HillBill]

This is the UK...Tree surgeons/arborists are all we have i believe The only loggers are data loggers We cut nearly all our trees down a long time ago. Most of whats here now are what we replanted. and then mainly for timber.

I understand the comcept you're describing; but for a fallen tree wouldn't a logger be more approriate than a tree surgeon?

 

[spandit]

Lucky chap! You saved a lot of people a lot of bother & although technically it wasn't your wood to take, it would be a really sad day if the owner had made an issue of it

 

[stuey]

I understand the comcept you're describing; but for a fallen tree wouldn't a logger be more approriate than a tree surgeon?

Hi Santaman.
UK is a bit quirky about its tree services. Woodland and forestry stuff tends to be undertaken by Foresters but this not exclusive. Local authority and domestic treework tends to be undertaken by tree surgeons or arboricultural contractors (same thing really but arborists are academically more qualified). This is not however exclusive as woodland and forestry works are sometimes undertaken by trees surgeons or arborists on bigger contracts. Confused?!
In the case here the tree had fallen across a public highway so the local authority has a duty to maintain a clear and safe highway as per the Highways Act 1975 so would employ an arboricultural contractor or tree surgeon to maintain their trees and ensure un-obstructed highways from tree debris.
Cheers, Stu

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[santaman2000]

Hi Santaman.
UK is a bit quirky about its tree services. Woodland and forestry stuff tends to be undertaken by Foresters but this not exclusive. Local authority and domestic treework tends to be undertaken by tree surgeons or arboricultural contractors (same thing really but arborists are academically more qualified). This is not however exclusive as woodland and forestry works are sometimes undertaken by trees surgeons or arborists on bigger contracts. Confused?!
In the case here the tree had fallen across a public highway so the local authority has a duty to maintain a clear and safe highway as per the Highways Act 1975 so would employ an arboricultural contractor or tree surgeon to maintain their trees and ensure un-obstructed highways from tree debris.
Cheers, Stu

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fair enough. I was thinking their was still some commerciao logging going on there. I was also wondering how such a complex system would cope with a major disaster such as a hurricane (I know you don't get them) where hundreds of trees block the roads and hundreds more are felled over power lines. Here every line crew and road crew carry chain saws.

 

[Rockmonkey]

Don't really have loggers over here, but i know what you are saying!
You don't need to be an arborist to do the work (up a tree), just have your chainsaw ticket (on the floor only) which does not include felling, but to clear the road, a chainsaw ticket is all that you would need, plus autherization and insurance plus the rest to do the work!

RM

 

[fishfish]

i found myself in a similar situation last year,i cut up a tree that had fallen across a byway,it had been there 4 weeks so i had it,the councill sent me a letter moaning about it so i sent them an invoice for £900 for removal and disposal of said ash tree,i got a letter back saying sorry they wouldnt pay but they were not pursuing the matter furthur! result! in effect the tree was payment for the work they should have done.

 

[Eric_Methven]

Yea, I've got my chainsaw ticket (The blue book) and am covered for felling trees up to 15" at the butt. Taking apart trees on the ground is all about understanding the stresses in the wood, and assessing where the wood will fly or bounce when you make the cut. I can do all of that safely.
It was a big straight ash.

 

[demographic]

Don't really have loggers over here, but i know what you are saying!

Eh? There must be quite a few blokes working in Kielder who might dispute that.

 

[carabao]

fair enough. I was thinking their was still some commerciao logging going on there. I was also wondering how such a complex system would cope with a major disaster such as a hurricane (I know you don't get them) where hundreds of trees block the roads and hundreds more are felled over power lines. Here every line crew and road crew carry chain saws.

The real big one in the 80s the one the weatherman said was just a bit blustery, I was in Colchester garrison, and we had to help the civvies clear the fallen trees. I was a Rifleman and got told to report to our assault pioneers shed, got a 1 hour lesson on a husqavana chainsaw and was unleashed to chop up logs. Good fun but much quicker with det cord

 

[Rockmonkey]

Oops's, i stand corrected

RM

 

[Rockmonkey]

At least the buggers couldn't get you for not holding a licience, only the other things!
I remember the days when doing what you did was seen as a public service, and the council would have been greatful, but those days are long gone!
We have all done these kind of things until some jobs worth joe public gets involved and drops you in a world of sh1t!
Then you realize, you can't even wipe your nose without written consent!
You did the right thing 100%, i wish i was that brave, but once bitten twice shy!!
I hope you get the wood!

RM