Bad bad things are going on in Norway these days. Please spread the word.

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Fadcode

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Feb 13, 2016
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My phone is solar charged whenever possible. Food was salad from the garden no cooking needed.Today's hot water was also solar. I put a solar shower out last night. By lunch I had a shower. Refilled and done my washing up with it tonight. .....Easy!
Its summertime, so these things are possible, what about in the winter?, obviously in winter time everyone uses more electricity, last time I drove through Texas, I was quite surprised how many farms had little windmills driving water pumps, generators etc, maybe we are just too modern nowadays,
I was also surprised to see a massive windfarm there with about 3000 windmills, I got to thinking so many in a little place, could it actually have an effect on the wind itself, change its course for instance, likewise solar panels, could they reflect the heat back out into the atmosphere, then the atmosphere sends it back down, re-heating the earth twice, Idiotic I know but well thats me, got to think out of the box, especially when you think how important the jet stream is to the weather.
 
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Janne

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Feb 10, 2016
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Much cheaper nowadays Janne. Worth looking at again perhaps? Panels have come on in leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. I have small shares in a solar business. We are looking at 20 yrs plus on the panels we use.
We have been thinking about it. The design, can they take the tropical heat and sun?
that was one of the problems when we built the house.

We had a standing seam Aluminium roof made, the distance between the seams is so the manels can slot in. The 'seams' are designed to take a kind of Alu profile that holds the panels in place. Then you fix the Alu profiles to the roof. Hurricane proof too.

I am ashamed to say that this Island, one of the richest countries in the world, THE richest in the Caribbean by far, had less solar panels per capita than any country in Europe, including Albania, until they created a small solar farm.....
We are still at the bottom of 1st world countries.
( writing this with head down in shame)

Please do not ask how recycling is here, or any other environmental 'thing'....

Fadcote, I have been told that much of the energy from the sun is ansorbed by the panel, so less hits the Earth. So less energy that is turned into heat.

That was one of the plusses if Sahara was turned into huge Solar Farms. The idea was, together with the increased water area, that would cool that area, and create humidity that would cause rain.

If those calculations were correct, no doubt that would cause some other enviroionmental problems further down the line.

The reason I am very interested in the Environmental stuff is that my main home, Cayman, is basically on Sea level. two centimeters raise will devastate much of Grand Cayman.
Plus my second home, in Arctic Lofoten Islands, if the Gulf stream stops, that area will go very, very cold and possibly not be habitable.
 
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Woody girl

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Maybe you need to be innovative Janne and set an example with solar. I'd imagine that if the solar panels work ok in the desert areas with sand etc they should be fine on cayman. Mind you I'd be investing in a boat if I lived on an island with only centimetres above see level :).
 
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Billy-o

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Apr 19, 2018
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I remember William Woolard going on about domestic geothermal heat pumps in the garden were going to be the next big thing ... at least that was so in the early 1980s. An interview with lots of Scandinavian people and lots of people from Machynlleth
 
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Woody girl

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Just had a look at some of those small domestic turbines Toddy mentioned . As I suspected they don't chuck out much wattage between 20 and 50 watts. Fine for a shed caravan or small yacht. You'd need much more to power a modern house. You can get 1000 watt ones. Much more of a backup than fully powering a house. The cost of batteries would be the main worry. But they are getting better and cheaper all the time.
 
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Woody girl

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I remember William Woolard going on about domestic heat sinks in the garden were going to be the next big thing ... at least that was so in the early 1980s. An interview with lots of Scandinavian people and lots of people from Machynlleth
Machynlleth that's the place to go for ideas and info. They've got some lovely systems including photovoltaic roof tiles that look like normal ones. Don't ask me how they work as I'm not tech savvy but I thought that was a great idea for buildings that you might not want to see massive panels on. Haven't heard about it anywhere else tho. I think tesla make them.
 
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petrochemicals

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Jul 30, 2012
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You've lost me. Trump objected to the turbines on his golf course....that promised hundreds of jobs.....there are two 'full time' employees apparently, and one is himself :rolleyes:

The Telegraph is known to be anti-wind power, and pro the gamekeepers and landowners.....though they be but few in number, they have a lot of space, that they use for ....well shooting birds :rolleyes:

It's a curate's egg, or as Janne said, we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

On that note though, every single one of us is using electricity right now, even if it's just the charged battery for a phone.

M
I was just commenting on your acceptance of Trumps politics. I know your thankful for the hundreds of jobs trumps golf course created, but that shouldnt mean you're biased, like you say, his view are equally valid asanyone elses politics.. He really should have more full time employees though, he will never have a top notch course running it like that with part time staff.

The Telegraph has been giving good press for bird persecuting gamekeepers in the highlands for years, I'm not entirely sure I fully trust their stories much.
Well that a good point demographic but its not just them, The guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ng-hundreds-of-uk-bats-each-month-study-finds

And yes I know it says bats, but same difference. They will alll learn to avoid areas with wind turbines I think,is the point, do you agree ?


Thats the guardian Janne, the the Guardian, or Gruinidad if you will.
 

Toddy

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No.
I only commented on his disapproval of the windfarms offshore from his golf course because it spoiled the view....note; nothing to do with any devastation of wildlife.

Does Trump actually have valid political economics ? perhaps a topic for elsewhere :)
 

Janne

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Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
I remember William Woolard going on about domestic geothermal heat pumps in the garden were going to be the next big thing ... at least that was so in the early 1980s. An interview with lots of Scandinavian people and lots of people from Machynlleth
Geothermal is very common in Sweden now. People even retrofit old properties. But only suitable if you have a large empty garden, or a field, so outside the cities. ‘Budget’ housing, or houses that are connrcted ( with small gardens) can not have that tech.
What is incredibly popular is the heat exchangers.
We have one ( Panasonic) that was fitted around 10 years ago by the previous owner. Warms up the first floor well, and keeps the second floor livable, without any additional heating when the temperature outside is above 10C. Below that it keeps the second floor almost livable. But we need one electric panel heater in the downstairs bedroom, plus the under floor heating ‘on’ in the downstairs bedroom.
Uses very little electricity.

It is an old house, with newly added insulation on the walls
 
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petrochemicals

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No.
I only commented on his disapproval of the windfarms offshore from his golf course because it spoiled the view....note; nothing to do with any devastation of wildlife.

Does Trump actually have valid political economics ? perhaps a topic for elsewhere :)
Of all the countries in the world there are only afew that generate all of there electric from renewable sources. But that is just elecrtics. The uk generates 25percent via renewables in electric, but energy wise of total this is 5 percent of total energy use. Off shore is a different kettle of fish though, plenty of sea areas with no real pressure on the air above, seagulls are numerous and can go elsewhere. If we are going to go green we will need all the area we can get ie portugal normandy brittany ireland offshore. I cannot say i support your stance on trump therefore toddy.
 

Janne

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What we need is fusion.
The problem with most renewable sources is that they can not satisfy the demand at high peak, the only one that can do that is hydroelectric.

I suspect the best for the future, until fusion is ready, is a mix of wind, water and nuclear, depending on the country.
 

Glass-Wood-Steel

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Jul 31, 2016
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Cheshire
What we need is fusion.
The problem with most renewable sources is that they can not satisfy the demand at high peak, the only one that can do that is hydroelectric.

I suspect the best for the future, until fusion is ready, is a mix of wind, water and nuclear, depending on the country.
Wind and solar need to be coupled with battery storage. In the UK alot of wind farms are turned off outside peak times because the power is not needed. If the power is collected at all times then there is more to be had at peak hours. See in this article
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...its-own-in-a-burgeoning-energy-storage-market
 

Toddy

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Totally off topic here, but replying to Janne.

Somewhere, not so very long ago, I mind reading an article about crushed rock being used as fertiliser, and that the world was rapidly running out of rock.....and in the usual doomsday scenario we'd all starve in a couple of hundred years because we've used up all the rock.
Couldn't see it myself, but it got me thinking at the time, that perhaps rocky areas could be selectively crushed to create a kind of matrix for organic composting and thus create a fertile plot ?
 
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Toddy

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@petrochemicals ; I dislike nimbyism for nimbyism's sake, especially when it's influenced by biased absorption of knowledge. That's the only beef with Trump that I am prepared to discuss on this forum.

I wonder about the wave power though. It's as regular as clockwork, it comes in, and it goes out, and it's just hydro in a massive form. Maybe we need to spend more on the research for it. We wouldn't even need to block every tidal river, just harness some of the energy.

M
 

Glass-Wood-Steel

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Jul 31, 2016
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Totally off topic here, but replying to Janne.

Somewhere, not so very long ago, I mind reading an article about crushed rock being used as fertiliser, and that the world was rapidly running out of rock.....and in the usual doomsday scenario we'd all starve in a couple of hundred years because we've used up all the rock.
Couldn't see it myself, but it got me thinking at the time, that perhaps rocky areas
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potash
 

Paul_B

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Jul 14, 2008
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Siting of renewables is important. Siting them in shallow, tidal areas like morecambe Bay is probably easy in terms of the engineering but it's likely to be in internationally important habitat for wading birds and the critters in the mid they're feeding on.

Renewables like the morecambe Bay tidal barrage scheme that's gaining political traction up here is basically saying stuff the habitat climate change is more important. That's a conversation we need. Should we focus on climate change over habitats? Possibly the answer is yes!
 
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Broch

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Jan 18, 2009
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This whole subject is a no-win scenario. We, as amateurs, don't have the 'real' information to make any sensible proposals because all the data we are thrown is either politically or financially biased and not based on environmental impact at all. The data that suggests that a modern hybrid car uses the equivalent of 10 years of oil guzzling energy resources just to make it is one example and yet we are told, for political and financial reasons, it's the way forward. The energy used, mostly oil based, to make a wind turbine is phenomenal - but we're not given that data.

In the end it all comes down to our own personal desires. I for one do not want to live in a world covered by man's machines everywhere we look just so that the population can boil more water than it needs to make a cup of tea and sit and watch Coronation Street (I wonder how much energy that programme alone has consumed in it's 59 years of running :)).

We need to strive for low energy use in both manufacturing and the home. There's no point making things that use little power if we use colossal amounts in the manufacture!

That plus clean, safe nuclear energy just to throw my preference in :)

Oh, and the power generated by a wind turbine is proportional to the square of the blade diameter which is why small ones don't work. In Wales the wind conditions that produce the quoted power output of turbines is available approximately 20% of the time - so their actual generation is only 20% of their peak capability. i.e. a 500Kw turbine only produces 100Kw hrs of power every hour on average.
 
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petrochemicals

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@petrochemicals ; I dislike nimbyism for nimbyism's sake, especially when it's influenced by biased absorption of knowledge. That's the only beef with Trump that I am prepared to discuss on this forum.

I wonder about the wave power though. It's as regular as clockwork, it comes in, and it goes out, and it's just hydro in a massive form. Maybe we need to spend more on the research for it. We wouldn't even need to block every tidal river, just harness some of the energy.

M
Like mill ponds and water wheels, wind mills from years ago.

Basically power is money, that's the entire fiscal system summed up. You buy oil to make iron ore into steel. The steel then has value because of the energy in it, onto making a car, more energy in it, all so we can drive to the shops and pick up food that's been made by machine, or wash clothes in a machine without expending energy ourselves. There is only one way out of it and that's going back to local food and doing work ourselves rather than using energy, having our lives taken up with baking washing etc rather than having the time for internet forums, outdoor camping etc. Far too many people on the planet, people where shocked by plastic, but really that's just a small part of what we're doing, like the rock idea, one day all of the earths buffering capabilities will be all used up just like the marble rock for paving, pollution everywhere. Whales are dying because of chemicals used in industry are building up in there systems. Plastic is only really a visible representation.
 

Paul_B

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Jul 14, 2008
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Work had a big energy efficiency drive a couple of years ago. Simple things like turning off machines made a huge difference. Seriously successful. Leads to one of the directors / owners challenging the works manager over ensuring machines get turned off at the weekends. He often gets caught out when the director checks in on the Saturday.

In industry it's really important. Things like airline leaks are among the big issues we have. Try as we might we couldn't eliminate them. It's been estimated that our leaks could, if prevented, mean one less compressor being used with all the energy expenditure running it.

If you apply that approach to all SMEs across the UK (which AIUI actually accounts for a large proportion of UK economy) how much energy would be saved? It's seriously where the big savings are not domestic.

Then heating and lighting costs in old factories or newer crinkly sheds?

The money saved by not having overtime over the weekend or outside normal hours due to lighting, heating and equipment. To do that it's led to investment in equipment efficiency. Lowering downtime. Faster changeovers. Staggered break times so machines are running all day shift. With more initiatives it's possible to lose the night shift and bring them into the days.

It's certainly very possible to reduce energy consumption but IMHO industry is where the big savings are. In SMEs you might find they need development support to make the necessary changes.
 
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slowworm

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May 8, 2008
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In the end it all comes down to our own personal desires. I for one do not want to live in a world covered by man's machines everywhere we look just so that the population can boil more water than it needs to make a cup of tea and sit and watch Coronation Street (I wonder how much energy that programme alone has consumed in it's 59 ears of running :)).
Indeed, my pet hate is patio heaters, googling electric ones comes up with over 63 million results.

I would be happier with the damage done by wind turbines if the same effort was applied to reducing everyone's electric consumption. But then we must remember wind farms are big business, just like the fossil fuel industries.
 
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