Bad bad things are going on in Norway these days. Please spread the word.

  • Hey Guest, We've had to cancel our 2020 Summer BushMoot PLEASE LOOK HERE for more information.

Woody girl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 31, 2018
2,823
1,922
62
Exmoor
I think harleys nowadays do not vibrate as bally as they used to. I have two v twins neither vibrate , so it is possible :)
 

petrochemicals

Full Member
Jul 30, 2012
3,561
221
westmidlands
Why are the sea eagles being hurt ? Are there not huge pre-installation researches done ?

I know that the Norwegians themselves are doing research, and the results seem to indicate that the population is actually steady.

http://sciencenordic.com/five-kilometres-between-life-and-death-sea-eagle

I think this is always going to be a contentious topic, I know that not everyone (ahem! Trump) likes the windfarms on their 'doorstep' so to speak. I know too that wilderness is only really wilderness to the people who don't live there......and I know that with the best of intentions harnessing natural energy is still very much a work in progress.

M
I quite agree toddy, Trump is by far the best politics to follow, lots and lots of good politics.

Its happening in scotland too, the thing is that the birds will learn that windmills are dangerous and not go anywhere near them eventually, so there will be no go cities nogo farmland and eventually no go moors etc.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...birds-of-prey-than-persecution-this-year.html

Thats the telegraph Janne by the way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Janne

Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
12,368
2,262
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
I do read the Telegraph. I pay so we can enjoy some quality reporting.
But, we need the Daily Fail.
Ying and Yang, you see.....
:)

I think, hand on heart, that the only solution is Nuclear. I hope they can crack the Fusion Enigma soon, that will save the Earth. Or at least prolong the suffering....
 
  • Like
Reactions: santaman2000

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,294
287
-------------
I quite agree toddy, Trump is by far the best politics to follow, lots and lots of good politics.

Its happening in scotland too, the thing is that the birds will learn that windmills are dangerous and not go anywhere near them eventually, so there will be no go cities nogo farmland and eventually no go moors etc.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...birds-of-prey-than-persecution-this-year.html

Thats the telegraph Janne by the way.
The Telegraph has been giving good press for bird persecuting gamekeepers in the highlands for years, I'm not entirely sure I fully trust their stories much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Toddy

Woody girl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 31, 2018
2,823
1,922
62
Exmoor
The thing is we need to cut our electric consumption on a personal and business level. Personally I can't do much about business but I can cut my own consumption . I now have bills that are half what they used to be. .. untill I put the heating on. I have a heat pump put in two years ago to replace aged storage heaters. If I could run them off of solar I'd barely pay a thing... that would be great!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Janne

Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
12,368
2,262
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
The first thing that should be done is to remove all taxes and duties from energy efficient stuff.
Say - remove the VAT from the highest level household stuff. ( AAA+ rated ?)
Double effect: Saving energy, and forcing the manufacturers to make better goods.


There is one huge difference between today and 100 years ago. Today, us that work usually travel huge distances to work. In the past, you could easily walk.

Do not start me on Food mileage.........
 
  • Like
Reactions: Woody girl

Fadcode

Full Member
Feb 13, 2016
2,352
562
Cornwall
Seeing as the Sun runs on Nuclear power, I don't see why we cant.
The problem with power, is the cost, until Oil either runs out or is that expensive we can't afford it, then not much effort will be put into finding an alternative source, most of these windmills ( now there is a thought, why not cute proper windmills, cheap flour too) are there because they are subsidised and make money for the owners, who have little regard for the environment or the countryside, there are plenty of alternatives to Oil, Hydro-electric, easily done , tidal and wave power, its there forever, but the cost stops it happening, Drive along East India Dock Rd, in London at night and ask why Canary Wharf and all the high rise office blocks are lit up like Christmas trees, we need to economise on the use of the electricity as is, rather than keep making more, as this takes away the urgency, and increases the cost.
In the next few decades (when the existing Nuclear Power stations are decommissioned) we will see what it means to be self sufficient on Power, when all the cars are electric ask yourself, where will the power come from to keep recharging them, and how much will it cost to replace all the taxes and duties the Govt now collect on Petrol/Diesel sales, How much will Electricity cost?, and will we be able to afford it.
The only answer is, Nuclear, as dangerous as it is, in fact Dounreay was evacuated 4 hours ago due to a leak in radiation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Janne

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
35,869
1,930
S. Lanarkshire
I quite agree toddy, Trump is by far the best politics to follow, lots and lots of good politics.

Its happening in scotland too, the thing is that the birds will learn that windmills are dangerous and not go anywhere near them eventually, so there will be no go cities nogo farmland and eventually no go moors etc.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...birds-of-prey-than-persecution-this-year.html

Thats the telegraph Janne by the way.
You've lost me. Trump objected to the turbines on his golf course....that promised hundreds of jobs.....there are two 'full time' employees apparently, and one is himself :rolleyes:

The Telegraph is known to be anti-wind power, and pro the gamekeepers and landowners.....though they be but few in number, they have a lot of space, that they use for ....well shooting birds :rolleyes:

It's a curate's egg, or as Janne said, we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

On that note though, every single one of us is using electricity right now, even if it's just the charged battery for a phone.

M
 

Woody girl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 31, 2018
2,823
1,922
62
Exmoor
Dounreay leaking again ? They gave up trying to clean that place up in 2011 after it had been leaking radioactive stuff for years. Beaches seafloor fish etc all contaminated. How the diddly doo da is that acceptable? Nobody cared and swept it all under the carpet since the 60s so they could keep on making money and because the government could never accept it was a bad idea all round. It was ....Worth the risk... realy?
If the continental shelf decides to have a wobbly... sunami time have fun running for your life everyone and never being able to live there again. A bit like chenoble and fukoshima. Have we not learned the lesson yet? !!!!!!!!!!.
 

Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
12,368
2,262
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Yes, but you USE. A drop in the sea.....
The devices we are on right now, cost much energy to manufacture. Maybe not much to use, but still....

I have always wondered how much electricity the WWW uses? Anybody knows?
 

Woody girl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 31, 2018
2,823
1,922
62
Exmoor
My phone is solar charged whenever possible. Food was salad from the garden no cooking needed.Today's hot water was also solar. I put a solar shower out last night. By lunch I had a shower. Refilled and done my washing up with it tonight. .....Easy!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Janne

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,294
287
-------------
I was just throwing out an idea. I'm sure that technology could solve the noise or vibration issues.. rubber mountings for instance. Plus I wasn't advocating huge turbines in populated cities. They could be on top of high rise buildings. And therefore much smaller and less susceptible to falling over in high winds. It's fairly typical of people to see the negatives first and say can't be done because. .. blah blah.
One way to get round problems is to look at the end result you desire and then work backwards to the solution. It realy does work. Also how many deaths due to coal mining accidents compared to turbines collapsing? Google it and find out!

Why bother fixing problems you are creating by siting the windmills in a bad place? Just site them somewhere where you don't have to damp the vibrations down.
As for smaler windmills, the most efficient windmills have the bigger blades and the height of the nacelle needs to be at least slightly higher than the length of the blades. Don't want them clattering the tops off buildings do we.
There's also a serious amount of reinforced concrete in wind turbine bases, not always the kind of amount you want on a tower block top.
The wind around large buildings is generally quite turbulent which isnt good for wind turbines either.

I'm not saying you can't put wind turbines on the top of buildings, just that you are making lots more work by doing it, its inefficient. Which is exactly the thing you should be trying to get right.

Currently the best place to site wind turbines is offshore where theres far less turbulent air, followed by windy countryside.

Then theres a lot to be done with roof mounted photovoltaics, connected to battery banks in the home and the grid, this actually provides power and in some cases helps stabilise the national grid.

Someone mentioned the sun using nuclear energy and why dont we do that?

So far theres one nuclear fusion experimental reactor (well I think its more of a cyclotron) that has managed to get more energy out than they put into the firing atoms around inside it.
Thats in Japan and even then nuclear fusion as a source of energy is rated as maybe possible in the next 20 years.
Just like its been for the last 40 years...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nice65

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
35,869
1,930
S. Lanarkshire
It must be twenty years ago now, but there was a push for folks to have mini wind power generators at their houses around here, supposedly they were cheaper, and a lot easier to install than the roof panels for solar. Haven't seen any of the little windmills for a while though. Their 'propellor' spread was about the size of the tv booster disc things with something the size of the small seagull outboard engines attached to it. Attached just above the roof line on a pole attached to the houses.
No idea how it worked, apart from the wind though. Don't think it was connected up to the grid, but no idea if it just charged batteries or something along those lines.
 

Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
12,368
2,262
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Remember those 'fantastic' screw windmills?
No vibration. Not seen one in ages.

A solarpanel has about 10 years life span, before the efficiency goes down? I was going to install solapanels when we built the house 9 years ago. Have 3000 Sq feet eoof space, angles etc designed to take them.
Did not do it. Initial expense was too high.
 

Glass-Wood-Steel

Full Member
Jul 31, 2016
60
21
Cheshire
You will never please everyone with whatever power source in whatever location. We should just go for the cleanest most sustainable option.
When I look at a wind turbine I see clean energy , the same with solar.
There will be a cost to our environment and pockets whatever we choose but the energy sources which produce undesirable waste should surely be avoided. Especially where a cleaner alternative is available. Turbines and hydro and solar, with enough investment will ultimately get more and more efficient and harness the energy of nature. The future legacy of this seems to be only infrastructure. The land will recover, the trees will grow back. The same can't be said for fossil or nuclear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Woody girl

Woody girl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 31, 2018
2,823
1,922
62
Exmoor
Much cheaper nowadays Janne. Worth looking at again perhaps? Panels have come on in leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. I have small shares in a solar business. We are looking at 20 yrs plus on the panels we use.
 

Woody girl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 31, 2018
2,823
1,922
62
Exmoor
It must be twenty years ago now, but there was a push for folks to have mini wind power generators at their houses around here, supposedly they were cheaper, and a lot easier to install than the roof panels for solar. Haven't seen any of the little windmills for a while though. Their 'propellor' spread was about the size of the tv booster disc things with something the size of the small seagull outboard engines attached to it. Attached just above the roof line on a pole attached to the houses.
No idea how it worked, apart from the wind though. Don't think it was connected up to the grid, but no idea if it just charged batteries or something along those lines.
Yes they were all the rage for a while. Havnt seen one in years. I think they went to batteries but storage was so dire back then it was hardly worth the effort. Except perhaps as a shed light.
I once met someone in Devon who had a wind Gennys on his land. Only a small domestic one but it was still quite large. Bigger than the ones you talk of. Powered the house in winter so long as you didn't watch TV at the same time you put the washing machine on! Has solar now as well. Havnt seen him for years sof wonder what else he's got now. Will have to go see next time I'm down thataway.