Backpack comparison - please advise

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Old Bones

Settler
Oct 14, 2009
740
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East Anglia
as long as the waist band is at the right height and all is snug I find no issue, so what in your mind is the problem and what do other packs do better? from what I have noted of more modern thinking is the frames are more akin to a cradle and more hugging with hammock like straping and padding spreading load over the back more?
A good back system will use the hip belt to support roughly 80% to 90% of the weight of the pack, with perhaps no more than 20% of the weight taken on your shoulders. Its much more comfortable, less likely to hurt your back,and of course transfers the weight lower down, so is less top heavy. The sort of very basic waist belt that you find on surplus army packs or cheap rucksacks really does not do that. And not being adjustable for back length makes it even less effective.

Just try lifting the same load for a couple of miles with a surplus 65L pack, and one with a decent back system set up properly, and the difference is very apparent.

There are certainly all sorts of padding systems, torsion systems, etc as well, but the adjustable back system, which will adjust to your back size, thus making the waist/hip belt sit in the right position with regard to your shoulders etc is the main way to transfer load. Those other straps and stabilisers are also important, and again, make life much more comfortable.

You might have a good back now, but its easy to damage it, and there is no need to spend much money making life easier (although Osprey are not cheap, but they are popular for good reasons). The civilian market certainly thinks that way, which is why such a setup will be standard.

There is a good guide here, and somewhere like Cotswolds will show you some of their stock, and put weights in a pack to get the setup right.
 
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OrtesPL

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Feb 4, 2018
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A good back system will use the hip belt to support roughly 80% to 90% of the weight of the pack, with perhaps no more than 20% of the weight taken on your shoulders. Its much more comfortable, less likely to hurt your back,and of course transfers the weight lower down, so is less top heavy. The sort of very basic waist belt that you find on surplus army packs or cheap rucksacks really does not do that. And not being adjustable for back length makes it even less effective.

Just try lifting the same load for a couple of miles with a surplus 65L pack, and one with a decent back system set up properly, and the difference is very apparent.

There are certainly all sorts of padding systems, torsion systems, etc as well, but the adjustable back system, which will adjust to your back size, thus making the waist/hip belt sit in the right position with regard to your shoulders etc is the main way to transfer load. Those other straps and stabilisers are also important, and again, make life much more comfortable.

You might have a good back now, but its easy to damage it, and there is no need to spend much money making life easier (although Osprey are not cheap, but they are popular for good reasons). The civilian market certainly thinks that way, which is why such a setup will be standard.

There is a good guide here, and somewhere like Cotswolds will show you some of their stock, and put weights in a pack to get the setup right.
Well said.
I used to carry tactical vests and suitable military packs. They are fine for ASG, paintball and similar combat trainings however imo not for hiking and camping.
I like to sleep in a wildness, be on my own, but like to feel comfortable and have a proper cushion and hip support. Especially for a longer walks and a few days away.

If you like to walk with a military gear and be rough as f... than fine, but why not make your life easier and use the gear available nowadays, which is made to purpose!



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Old Bones

Settler
Oct 14, 2009
740
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East Anglia
I did find a photo of the 85L on ebay with the actual straps (65L ones all seem to feature the same photo) - and although the waist belt is actually padded on that one (as opposed to another one I found, which was basic beyond belief), there is no sign of any adjustment for height. So its not different from using a 25L daypack, and will knacker you.

And it seems to retail for about £30 plus.

On the other hand, the perfectly decent Berghaus Trailhead (which is available for a starting bid of £20 plus a fiver postage at the moment on ebay) is 1.7kg.

Which is more comfortable, better made and ultimately better value?
 

OrtesPL

Member
Feb 4, 2018
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I did find a photo of the 85L on ebay with the actual straps (65L ones all seem to feature the same photo) - and although the waist belt is actually padded on that one (as opposed to another one I found, which was basic beyond belief), there is no sign of any adjustment for height. So its not different from using a 25L daypack, and will knacker you.

And it seems to retail for about £30 plus.

On the other hand, the perfectly decent Berghaus Trailhead (which is available for a starting bid of £20 plus a fiver postage at the moment on ebay) is 1.7kg.

Which is more comfortable, better made and ultimately better value?
I am waiting for this trailhead so please don't bid!
One more day to go and i hope to get it !



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I am not sure which one will be more comfy but because of the adjustable back system of the Berghaus, this might be the one...
I will confirm when I'll get it
 
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Old Bones

Settler
Oct 14, 2009
740
63
East Anglia
Dont worry, I'm not in the market at the moment, and I hope you get it for a good price.

The Berghaus will be vastly more comfy, if only because it does have a back system.
 
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petrochemicals

Full Member
Jul 30, 2012
3,540
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westmidlands
I did find a photo of the 85L on ebay with the actual straps (65L ones all seem to feature the same photo) - and although the waist belt is actually padded on that one (as opposed to another one I found, which was basic beyond belief), there is no sign of any adjustment for height. So its not different from using a 25L daypack, and will knacker you.

And it seems to retail for about £30 plus.

On the other hand, the perfectly decent Berghaus Trailhead (which is available for a starting bid of £20 plus a fiver postage at the moment on ebay) is 1.7kg.

Which is more comfortable, better made and ultimately better value?
I assume its standard fitting, some army fella reviewed it and hasnt mentioned the lack of anything.

The dimensions are what gets me.

Berghaus 30 cm depth
Airjet 20CM deep

When the load is that much more extended over the back, and your using a hip belt its more leverage on tye base. That is if your planning on doung much distance. The packs from zpacks are a good example quite thin long and wide, its the way its going. Radius arc from the hips is what will cause the leverage.
 

Old Bones

Settler
Oct 14, 2009
740
63
East Anglia
Of course it has a back system? It has an alloy frame
Thats just a frame. A proper adjustable back system (which is often part of the suspension system), which can adjust to a particular back size, is totally different, and there are examples like LA's Cenro (or the old TFX), Berghaus's Bioflex (or their old C7), Osprey's AntiGravity, Gregory's Response A3 etc.

Any pack can be uncomfortable, but the whole point is to make a pack fit as well as it can be to the individual - so thats its not. Thats what an adjustable system is for.

I assume its standard fitting, some army fella reviewed it and hasnt mentioned the lack of anything
Is there a 'standard' sized back? Its not too bad with a 25L=35L pack, but the weight your carrying with a 65L pack makes 'standard' just that much less comfortable. And since the army's standard bergan is sadly no better equiped with a back system than this one, its possible he didn't find it lacking, relatively speaking.

Zpacks have a great reputation amoungst the ultralighters, but you'll notice that they often have more than one pack to deal with different torso lengths, and then the description on, for instance, the Arc Haul pack says 'The torso height on this pack is adjustable up and down within a range for a perfect fit.'
 
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OrtesPL

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Feb 4, 2018
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Thats just a frame. A proper adjustable back system (which is often part of the suspension system), which can adjust to a particular back size, is totally different, and there are examples like LA's Cenro (or the old TFX), Berghaus's Bioflex (or their old C7), Osprey's AntiGravity, Gregory's Response A3 etc.

Any pack can be uncomfortable, but the whole point is to make a pack fit as well as it can be to the individual - so thats its not. Thats what an adjustable system is for.



Is there a 'standard' sized back? Its not too bad with a 25L=35L pack, but the weight your carrying with a 65L pack makes 'standard' just that much less comfortable. And since the army's standard bergan is sadly no better equiped with a back system than this one, its possible he didn't find it lacking, relatively speaking.

Zpacks have a great reputation amoungst the ultralighters, but you'll notice that they often have more than one pack to deal with different torso lengths, and then the description on, for instance, the Arc Haul pack says 'The torso height on this pack is adjustable up and down within a range for a perfect fit.'
I did my research and from all available packs, mainly Berghaus and apparently if lucky you can get trailhead 65 or ridgeway 65 for around £50.
I've read on their website that lifetime warranty applies for rucksacks. Anyone checked it and has some experience if it is worth spending another £30 for a new pack?

By the way I've lost all auctions so still looking for a rucksack but at least I've narrowed it down to the Ridgeway 65 from Berghaus.
 

Old Bones

Settler
Oct 14, 2009
740
63
East Anglia
By the way I've lost all auctions so still looking for a rucksack but at least I've narrowed it down to the Ridgeway 65 from Berghaus
Sorry about that! Sometimes you just get lucky, and I know I've lost several because I thought I might get it by bidding low, or was sniped at the last moment (there are some useful guides to ebay bidding, and personally I now hold on until the last minute and then give it both barrels).

I know your heart set on a Ridgeway (see what this guy will accept for this one - £50 might snag it), but there is a C7 for a very good price at the moment. If not, something will turn up. If you set up an alert, Ebay will do much of the work for you.
 

OrtesPL

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Feb 4, 2018
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Sorry about that! Sometimes you just get lucky, and I know I've lost several because I thought I might get it by bidding low, or was sniped at the last moment (there are some useful guides to ebay bidding, and personally I now hold on until the last minute and then give it both barrels).

I know your heart set on a Ridgeway (see what this guy will accept for this one - £50 might snag it), but there is a C7 for a very good price at the moment. If not, something will turn up. If you set up an alert, Ebay will do much of the work for you.
No worries :)
That's what I usually do - last sec bid :)
C7 is heavy comparing to Ridgeway.
Imo it is not worth paying £50 for pack if you can get a new one for 70/80.

But still trying to get some bergain

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OrtesPL

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Feb 4, 2018
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No worries :)
That's what I usually do - last sec bid :)
C7 is heavy comparing to Ridgeway.
Imo it is not worth paying £50 for pack if you can get a new one for 70/80.

But still trying to get some bergain

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Hi all!
Finally I've got a rucksack.
I went for a Berghaus Ridgeway 65.
So far I'm really happy with it. Can't feel much weight when packed and suspension system is just amazing.
Will post some review and comparison with my other packs after tests ( in 2 weeks hopefully).

Thank you all once more for support and advices!


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OrtesPL

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Feb 4, 2018
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Congratulations! How much did you get it for in the end?
Hi
Got the brand new one for £80. Saving £20 on used without a lifetime guarantee was not the best deal so went for a new one.

This weekend will test it in Dartmoor!!!


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Old Bones

Settler
Oct 14, 2009
740
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£80 is a good price.

Looking on Ebay for a new ME down jacket - almost got one, but just didn't push hard enough. It will happen at some point.

Enjoy your trip, and hope the weather is kind.
 

shaggystu

Full Member
Nov 10, 2003
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For the benefit of the OP, until the mid-noughties (and esp during the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s) Karrimor was cutting edge kit, well made in sunny Lancashire and loved by all in the outdoors community.

Due to some poor investment decisions, Karrimor went bust in 2004 and have ended up as part of M!ke Ashley’s portfolio of “zombie” brands sold through Sp0rts D!rect and elsewhere. There may be the odd gem amongst the dross but generally, the quality reflects the low prices.

Confusingly, Karrimor SF “Special Forces” is and always was a separate company making high quality kit usually in black or “warry” colours aimed at those in the armed and police forces. This survived the insolvency and continues making top notch kit although confusingly, Karrimor SF kit is sometimes sold at Sp0rts D!rect.

In summary, old Karrimor kit is great, as is Karrimor SF kit but modern Karrimor stuff is cheap and usually nasty.

You pays your money....:).
Very late reply I know, but just wanted to add another level of complication. Karrimor (the cheap nasty one) also do an "extreme" range, which is actually pretty good, I've had a pair of their merino long John's for a good three years now and they're still in good condition.

The problem with karrimor stuff these days isn't design/production/materials, it's simply that their quality control is awful, so if you can be bothered to do your own quality control then there's nothing wrong with karrimor kit. I live pretty close to the sport direct warehouse, most of the staff in there avoid me now, I think that maybe they don't enjoy tidying up after me.
 
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KenThis

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Jun 14, 2016
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For the benefit of the OP, until the mid-noughties (and esp during the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s) Karrimor was cutting edge kit, well made in sunny Lancashire and loved by all in the outdoors community.

Due to some poor investment decisions, Karrimor went bust in 2004 and have ended up as part of M!ke Ashley’s portfolio of “zombie” brands sold through Sp0rts D!rect and elsewhere. There may be the odd gem amongst the dross but generally, the quality reflects the low prices.

Confusingly, Karrimor SF “Special Forces” is and always was a separate company making high quality kit usually in black or “warry” colours aimed at those in the armed and police forces. This survived the insolvency and continues making top notch kit although confusingly, Karrimor SF kit is sometimes sold at Sp0rts D!rect.

In summary, old Karrimor kit is great, as is Karrimor SF kit but modern Karrimor stuff is cheap and usually nasty.

You pays your money....:).
Didn't know this thanks!