Apprenticeship Help

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Peat

Forager
Aug 29, 2008
178
0
West country
Hello,
I am a young craftsman based in the West Country, scratching a living from carving spoons, cups, Box wood crochet hooks, and other treen. I am fascinated by traditional crafts and woodland management and am determined that I will make a living from these things. Because of this I have decided to do an apprenticeship in the area of coppicing and green woodworking.

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Coppicing is a form of sustainable forestry that has been practised for thousands of years. Deciduous trees are cut, low to the ground, and instead of the stump dying off, as would happen with most conifers, new shoots are sent out. If the woodland is managed well, these shoots will grow straight and true and will be cut again in later years when deemed sizeable enough for their intended usage. This form of management dramatically extends the life of individual trees, as they are kept in the juvenile stage of their life cycle and there are less stresses placed on the tree by weighty limbs.

This form of woodland management means that timber and other wooden products can be harvested from a woodland almost indefinitely, with little need for replanting. It is also very beneficial for wildlife. The soil is not disturbed and so delicate species of flora and fauna can flourish, many of which favour the various stages of a coppice rotation over full canopy coverage.

However, in recent decades this sort of management has declined, in favour of the short term return of conifer plantations and as other materials such as plastics replace wood in many aspects of life. Sadly, when a coppice woodland is abandoned it becomes overstood – the stems may grow too large and twisted to be useful for anything other than firewood, and the stools (coppiced trees) will begin to tear themselves apart, letting in rot and disease. In a relatively short time the woodland becomes unproductive and lacks the biodiversity of an in-rotation coppice. It is then a substantial undertaking for anyone wishing to again harvest a useful product from the woodland.

As people are beginning to realise the threat of climate change and the part that an over reliance on fossil fuels and imported products plays in that, coppicing is once again becoming important. Coppice products can reduce our reliance on foreign imports of timber as well as providing us with locally sourced building materials, fencing, firewood, furniture, food and much more. It is necessary to revive this ancient, but still relevant practise, in order to become more sustainable and self-reliant as an island.

I have been making things out of wood for a good few years now, gradually honing my whittling skills, as well as getting out into the woods and trying as many different aspects of green woodworking as possible. Now I feel that the time has come for me to get my teeth into coppicing by training with an expert, so that I can practise the sustainable woodland management that I feel to be so important. Tim Gatfield at the Cherry Wood Project has agreed to take me on as an apprentice for a year, but to make this happen, I need to find the funding to support me in buying the tools, equipment and training necessary, as well as a small amount to cover my living costs for the year.

During this year I would be restoring derelict coppice, by cutting overstood stools, replanting to increase the density, felling and milling conifers and deer fencing to protect the newly cut and planted trees. I would also learn many different aspects of green woodworking and related skills including making furniture, hurdles, bowl turning and earth oven building, as Tim runs many different courses in traditional skills.

By donating towards my apprenticeship fund you are helping to keep traditional skills alive and encourage sustainable woodland management. You can donate to my fund by clicking on the donate button on the right hand side of my blog.
Thank you for any contributions.
 

udamiano

On a new journey
You need to approach the skills funding Agency. You may be required to register with a local college as they really only provide funding if your going to get a qualification out of it. But it's worth a try anyway as they are responsible for funding apprenticeships in the UK
Hope this helps
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
1
derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
You need to approach the skills funding Agency. You may be required to register with a local college as they really only provide funding if your going to get a qualification out of it. But it's worth a try anyway as they are responsible for funding apprenticeships in the UK
Hope this helps
Currently no qualification for this sort of work and therefore no official apprenticeship route and no public money. I have been working hard with the Heritage Crafts Association and CCSkills for the last 3 years to address the situation, we will get there but it takes time.......and unbelievable quantities of meetings and bureaucracy.
 

ex-member BareThrills

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 5, 2011
4,461
3
United Kingdom
I would contact Plumpton College, They offer green woodworking as a course and may be able to advise on an how an employer might access funding for you. There is a lot of money being put into apprenticeships currently but as it stands the Cherry Tree Project would need to be a contracted work based learning provider to the SFA.

Having worked for the skills funding agency its unlikely you will access any meaningful info from them directly.
 

stuey

Full Member
Sep 13, 2011
376
0
High Peak
www.arb-tek.co.uk
I find the thought of being expected to work on a long term basis for no return apart from assimilation of knowledge somewhat un-ethical. I understand the basis of freeskilling, apprenticeship etc and have no problem of good old trade system but unless you live in an idealistic happy clappy world the reality is that money makes things work hence your appeal for donations. I ran a very successful business myself for 12 years and had a mortgage to pay etc but at no time ever expected anyone to work for nothing apart from learning. I employed students on a realistic wage thus enabling them to live, work and learn.
Surely you would be better looking for similar opportunities to this one linked http://www.countryside-jobs.com/cjsdailyonline/Oct12/2009_3.html. I appreciate the closing date has passed and it is not exactly lwhat you are looking for butit would certainly be a springboard for further opportunities within the woodland, forestry, arboricultural sector which coppicing falls into. They may have not filled every vacancy and there may be other forthcoming opportunities.
Just my opinion and may result in a maelstrom of unrest but I personally feel you are in danger of being fleeced and there are more benficial opportunities out there for you.
 
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georann

Full Member
Feb 13, 2010
1,255
1
Warwickshire
www.slice-of-fire.co.uk
Thats outrageous that theres no public funding like other apprenticeships! I really feel for you mate and if I wasn't a student myself I would probably donate (perhaps you could use kickstarter or similar to crowdfund your education :p )
Nice work too looking at your blog.
Wish you the very best
Dan
 

ex-member BareThrills

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 5, 2011
4,461
3
United Kingdom
Thats outrageous that theres no public funding like other apprenticeships! I really feel for you mate and if I wasn't a student myself I would probably donate (perhaps you could use kickstarter or similar to crowdfund your education :p )
Nice work too looking at your blog.
Wish you the very best
Dan

There is money Dan but it comes with strings. There have been a number of high profile private training providers that gained contracts either directly through the SFA or via a franchise arrangements with FE Colleges that subsequently were found to have misappropriated funding or fell over because of poor buisness models. Organisations like the heritage crafts association referenced above are probably in the best position to come up with a framework to facilitate the money flowing. Like any government funding, the SFA will want to audit and inspect the provision as well as ensuring that students gain meaningful outcomes.

Apprenticeship funding is one of the few areas of funding in FE that is not seeing a contraction in funding as the government recognise its importance in driving the economic recovery. This is the case in 16-19 year olds but adult funding (19+) has been drastically cut.
 

Peat

Forager
Aug 29, 2008
178
0
West country
I find the thought of being expected to work on a long term basis for no return apart from assimilation of knowledge somewhat un-ethical. I understand the basis of freeskilling, apprenticeship etc and have no problem of good old trade system but unless you live in an idealistic happy clappy world the reality is that money makes things work hence your appeal for donations. I ran a very successful business myself for 12 years and had a mortgage to pay etc but at no time ever expected anyone to work for nothing apart from learning. I employed students on a realistic wage thus enabling them to live, work and learn.
Surely you would be better looking for similar opportunities to this one linked http://www.countryside-jobs.com/cjsdailyonline/Oct12/2009_3.html. I appreciate the closing date has passed and it is not exactly lwhat you are looking for butit would certainly be a springboard for further opportunities within the woodland, forestry, arboricultural sector which coppicing falls into. They may have not filled every vacancy and there may be other forthcoming opportunities.
Just my opinion and may result in a maelstrom of unrest but I personally feel you are in danger of being fleeced and there are more benficial opportunities out there for you.

Stuey, I understand your concern, but I am certain I am not being fleeced here. I volunteer regularly at the Cherry wood project, and I feel that to be able to live and work there full time for a year would be an invaluable experience for me. Accommodation and food will be provided and I hope to be able to continue making an income through selling my wares. The funding I am searching for is largely necessary to pay for chainsaw tickets and equipment. So if anyone knows of any source for this in particular, it would be especially useful.

Paul, I have spoken to Plumpton College, and been to a week long apprenticeship recruitment event with them in March. However, they are unable to fund apprentices over 25, and I would need to pay to train with them. I also have my heart set on this project and would not fancy relocating to the SE.

Thanks for the advice folks.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,983
4,628
S. Lanarkshire
Okay.........firstly, you have my complete sympathy (empathy) and regard for what you are trying to do.

Secondly, as a Mod I should pull this thread and remove your links since you aren't a Full Member let alone a Maker. That means you're not allowed to advertise, self promote or sell on the forum.

However, I think I have a solution............If those who feel so inclined chip in with a £ to the site's Paypal account, that'll shift Peat into the Full Members pretty sharpish.
It'd be better if he were a Maker, because then he's allowed the same protocols that the others are, but let's get it started.

From there, he's allowed reciprocal sig links with this community, full of people who are genuinely interested and wish him well in his ambition......and also with members who potentially might employ him to come and sort out their hedges, etc.,....but who also know that the season of Yuletide giftings is upon us and treen ware is rather nice, so he gets access to this market too.

I'm letting this run just now, and we'll see where it goes.
Understanding from everyone would be much appreciated; every other Maker pays for the rights to sell, by doing so they support the site and help keep things running.


cheers,
Mary
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,983
4,628
S. Lanarkshire
Well that's a lot of help, isn't it ?
I can't find a Donate button :dunno:
and if I can't find it easily then I firmly suspect it's an issue that needs attended to :sigh:

M
 

stuey

Full Member
Sep 13, 2011
376
0
High Peak
www.arb-tek.co.uk
Accomodation and food could be seen as payment in kind so the deal seems to be not quite so bad now :)
There are ways and means of gaining chainsaw qualifications and experience without having to pay the full cost. The document linked details help available to over 25's. http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...en/@educ/documents/digitalasset/dg_071227.pdf
You could try Norton Radstock College not a million miles away from Cherry Wood. I am not sure whether they still run the course that I myself used as a springboard 15 years ago. I retrained into Arboriculture by doing a fully funded NVQ 2 at Norton Radstock and working (for money) with a tree surgery company to cement the knowledge I was taught by college. When I then started my own Arboricultural contracting and consultancy I employed a couple of Radstock students over the years on good wages in order that they could complete their NVQ's.
Hereford College seem to be offering a similar arrangement to that of Norton Radstock http://www.hct.ac.uk/Courses/app_forestry.html
There is a deal more up to date information from folks on here about funding and training opportunities but I would seriously consider a few options for getting your saw tickets other than appeals for donations. You may be able to follow a similar path to my own and get Tim to "employ you" to give you the opportunity to build your experience. Otherwise there are plenty of arb contractors that may be willing to take you on and train you.

Whatever happens, good luck. If I hadn't sold my business 5 years ago I may have been in a position to take you on myself.
 

udamiano

On a new journey
Currently no qualification for this sort of work and therefore no official apprenticeship route and no public money. I have been working hard with the Heritage Crafts Association and CCSkills for the last 3 years to address the situation, we will get there but it takes time.......and unbelievable quantities of meetings and bureaucracy.

I could actually be done within a current framework. Nothing says that individual units from different structures cannot be combined, However to do this there are some framework issues that would need to be addressed

1. All the units combined would need to be from the same examinations authority (Edexcel is a good one)
2. They would need to be of that same level rating (QCF Level 3, etc) you can mix levels 2 and 3 however they must have a progression route
4. the combined structure must be equal in credit value as similar course e.g 18 units out of a possible 30 structured
5. All units must be on the S96 S97 recognised list.
6. A recognised institution would need to back it (In other words a college.
7. A appropriate system of assessment and IV (internal verification) and EV (external verification)
8. And this is the big problem! Apprentices in the UK are considered employees and would need to get a salary from the sponsoring company, they also have special rights of employment under the employment act regarding job safety and the role of the employer in providing for the training.
9. Finally the OK from the exam board and the QCDA but if the above is done correct this is usually a formality

So you could combine

Units for say

Agriculture
Architecture
Carpentry
Forestry
etc to make a bespoke course

(Its been done many times in the past)

once this is done it's them liable to public funding

All it takes is someone to sit down and map it out !

Unit specs and credit ratings are all on the exam boards website
QCF & the Qualifications and curriculum development agency (QCDA) have all the approved S96 ,S97 listings on their site, all of which is within the public domain.

If you want me to sit down with you sometime and take you through the mapping process and help you map out a draft, then drop me an email
 
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