Anyone attended RM's Arctic course?

[charliefox]

Hello one & all,

Just wondered if any of you hardy souls had attended one of Woodlore's Arctic Experience courses?

I've trawled through the previous posts and can't find anything.

I'd be particularly interested in your impressions of the course and the dreaded "value for money" question.

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[missing link]

I went on the course on 2003 and it was a fantastic experience. The course included Ray, Lars Fält,and Juha Rankinen.

I do not want to give to much away but I found it well worth the money. If fact I would go again. You can make it as Challenging as you want it to be. I used a lot of the time perfecting my fire skills, well it was -35!

The Northern lights were a sight to see that I'll never forget.

 

[Fallow Way]

I went this year and was perhaps one of the best experiences of my life. I loved every minute of it and am even planning a return trip for early next year.

Best bit of advice, learn some Swedish as they really appreciate it and also if Brit-Marie is there, talk to her as much as you can.

Ha beat you, -40 on ours lol Oh yes,, you will reappreciate what `cold` is. I loved it, perfect environment for me

paul

 

[charliefox]

You two aren't making this any easier

My bank manager was hoping for poor reviews, balmy weather, miles of slush etc. to put me off!

I did notice that out of 4 courses being run in 2006, 2 of them are booked up and 2 are available. Guess which ones are being led by the Insulated One?

I'm ashamed to say that the last time I was that far north it only got to -28. The locals were in t shirts IIRC.

One last thought - was the kit list a mile long?
Cheers

 

[Abbe Osram]

You two aren't making this any easier

My bank manager was hoping for poor reviews, balmy weather, miles of slush etc. to put me off!

I did notice that out of 4 courses being run in 2006, 2 of them are booked up and 2 are available. Guess which ones are being led by the Insulated One?

I'm ashamed to say that the last time I was that far north it only got to -28. The locals were in t shirts IIRC.

One last thought - was the kit list a mile long?
Cheers

Hi mate,
I was not at the course but I live right there where the course is held, its true that it got a bit warmer. I hope is not due to the global warming but we got it here the last winter only up to minus 28. You can see on my winter webpage some of my doing and I can help you with some advice about gear. Most important are you feed, check my link page I have a link to some boots I bought and they are great called Kamik boots.
Abbes camp

cheers
Abbe

 

[charliefox]

Thanks Abbe

 

[missing link]

I went this year and was perhaps one of the best experiences of my life. I loved every minute of it and am even planning a return trip for early next year.

Best bit of advice, learn some Swedish as they really appreciate it and also if Brit-Marie is there, talk to her as much as you can.

Ha beat you, -40 on ours lol Oh yes,, you will reappreciate what `cold` is. I loved it, perfect environment for me

paul

On our 3rd night it was -45 we could tell by the little temp gauge outside the cabin window.

 

[Abbe Osram]

On our 3rd night it was -45 we could tell by the little temp gauge outside the cabin window.

Maybe they painted it for your guys.
Ok, maybe there could be pockets of cold but to my knowleadge it was never much colder than minus 30. Understand me right I am not saying that you dont tell the truth but I am quite surprised because I live there and talk to my neighbours about the weather all the time and they too say that we havent had for a long time minus 40. Anyhow as I said maybe you got into a pocket.

cheers
Abbe

 

[arctic hobo]

On our 3rd night it was -45 we could tell by the little temp gauge outside the cabin window.

Christ! -45?? I've only ever seen slightly worse than that (-49); I remember skiing hard to keep warm, even wearing my bearskin I could feel it. I asked Bjørn how we would survive the night! He replied: "For kaldt" - too cold. He knew that if we stopped we could not keep moving fast enough to stop us instantly freezing up. When it's that cold, your clothes freeze up if you stop moving. The moisture in your breath freezes as you breathe out, and the fluid in your eyes starts to freeze behind goggles. I remember trying to rub them with bare hands then instantly regretting it because it took both of us to get my gloves (3 pairs frozen stiff) back on quick enough. Mercury freezes at -39, so you have to use alcohol thermometers. I don't know what the record is for the area - just that the Norwegian record is -54. At that sort of temperature you can barely ski - because skiing relies on a thin layer of ice melting under your ski to enable it to glide. Even with the thinnest wax, our skis were quickly ruined from the rough solid ice surface. Snow stops being snow - it is solid ice, it might as well be stones flying in your face. It can fly through thin soft clothing (like a balaclava) and the slit can quickly give you frostbite. In short, extreme in the real meaning of the word. Had a heated cabin dug into the snow not been about 2 miles away I really don't know what would have happened to us. It sounds melodramatic but with a monotonous rythymic movement like skiing your mind just goes crazy - you have to think of something else, especially with the depression that constant darkness brings. I remember desperately trying to visualise a picture I once took of my girlfriend in a field near home (cliche alert!) but for some reason I was dogged by awful memories of the mad rabbit play from the week before (Leon knows what I'm talking about ).
I've gone really off topic! Sorry I personally think the Ray Mears course is ridiculously overpriced. I have done the same thing (essentially, although we spent about a week with the Sami, but didnt have all the star power of Ray and his special techniques etc) - but at a fraction of the cost - 150 quid return to Tromsø, a bus to Alta, 200 quid on kit, the rest borrowed, and the company of a wonderful Norwegian man I met the day before. It's that easy

 

[arctic hobo]

Maybe they painted it for your guys.
Ok, maybe there could be pockets of cold but to my knowleadge it was never much colder than minus 30. Understand me right I am not saying that you dont tell the truth but I am quite surprised because I live there and talk to my neighbours about the weather all the time and they too say that we havent had for a long time minus 40. Anyhow as I said maybe you got into a pocket.

cheers
Abbe

I'd agree with that - my above reference was in a basin, where of course cold air sinks. Plus lower than -35 is an exception; lower than -40 is fortunately pretty rare, and lower than that does not last long - it tends to be an atmospheric upset. I don't know how it works
In a low flat land such as the Kiruna area (where the course is, is it not?) you would be unlikely to have it so low as the trees would shelter you not to mention the fact that the land is not exposed - out of the wind.

 

[Big Geordie]

I stayed in Kiruna in Feb. this year and saw several signs that it was -40, worst night we were on a dog sled and my moustache/beard became instant ice every time I breathed.
Loved it would love to go back. Sami people amazing. The Swedish legislation forbade them to live in houses till the 1960's. Just imagine having to keep the pensioners and kids outdoorsin those temperatures.
Everyone should go there at least once.
George

 

[jamesdevine]

If you are up for spending the kind off money RM ask's for his winter course Why not go one better and do one of the Karamat courses in Canada maybe even with Mors Kochanski himself.

I personal think it would be more worth the cost and time and you can then do as Artic Hobo has done and experience Lapland at your pace.

Cetainly the way I hope to do it.

Just a thought
James

 

[Abbe Osram]

If you are up for spending the kind off money RM ask's for his winter course Why not go one better and do one of the Karamat courses in Canada maybe even with Mors Kochanski himself.

I personal think it would be more worth the cost and time and you can then do as Artic Hobo has done and experience Lapland at your pace.

Cetainly the way I hope to do it.

Just a thought
James

To be fair to Ray one would have to check the program of any course. If Ray include in his winter course dogsleadging and some special stuff the prices can go up quite much. One has to check from all the companies holding courses what do they have in their program. Some even dont have food, some have a first class chef making special food etc.

Off course if you take my courses up here in sweden they are a bit cheaper than Rays.

cheers
Abbe

 

[HuBBa]

and of course all courses are charged based on what the market pays. So if Ray's courses are almost as expensive as one based in Canada, that is because thats what people pays. If they didn't pay, he wouldn't charge it

And if the cost of running the course is higher than the lowest price you can charge, that course wont be run

Contentwise i think it differs fairly little. And since both Mors & Ray/Lars'es courses have very good reputation i think it's fair to assume you wont be sad regardless of which one you choose.

Abbe: I would be interested in a little course (even informal one) or just a trip up north. What are your prices? PM if you dont' want to post public.

I could even bring my hammock

/HuBBa

 

[Abbe Osram]

and of course all courses are charged based on what the market pays. So if Ray's courses are almost as expensive as one based in Canada, that is because thats what people pays. If they didn't pay, he wouldn't charge it

And if the cost of running the course is higher than the lowest price you can charge, that course wont be run

Contentwise i think it differs fairly little. And since both Mors & Ray/Lars'es courses have very good reputation i think it's fair to assume you wont be sad regardless of which one you choose.

Abbe: I would be interested in a little course (even informal one) or just a trip up north. What are your prices? PM if you dont' want to post public.

I could even bring my hammock

/HuBBa

No problem, I am in the planning stage and will have a very soft start with one or two test groups of max 3 or 4 people starting in Spring when we have a little more light. The best thing is to check out my webpage on a regular base, I will tell you guys when I am ready.

If you have special wishes what you would like to see in a winter bushcraft course please drop me a mail and I check if I can included your wishes. Would be cool to design the perfect course.


Cheers
Abbe

 

[akraven]

OK I have to ask are the temps you folks quoting in Celsius or Farenheit? Just curious akraven

 

[HuBBa]

I would make a qualified guess at Celcius.

Btw. my only claim to "coldness" that has been bad enough to wilt any instance of manhood is spending 4 hours in 2C water. Trust me when i say that is something i do not plan to do ever again

 

[Abbe Osram]

OK I have to ask are the temps you folks quoting in Celsius or Farenheit? Just curious akraven

Hi mate
we are talking celsius in europe, I have no idea how much stuff is in Farenheit.
cheers
Abbe

 

[arctic hobo]

It doesn't make a huge amount of difference: minus 40 Farenheit is the same as minus 40 celsius. I always use celsius as Farenheit confused me as a kid so I never learnt it (despite doing everything else in imperial) - this is handy as most of the time that temperature becomes critical to my wellbeing I'm not in the UK - so it has to be celsius

 

[chris chris]

Woodlore are not the only arctic bushcraft course, don't forget there are other cheaper arctic course companies, some I've come across before on here.

http://www.nastc.ca/
http://www.uksurvivalschool.co.uk/arctic-and-winter-survival.htm
http://www.polartravel.co.uk/