Alcohol Burner

[addyb]

Yes, the tatonka will cool down much faster, it's stainless steel, a horrible heat conductor. Brass on the other hand is excellent.

If you were to do a real test, you need to control for extraneous factors, and to use a thermometer. Therefore,

Go into your garage, a place with a still wind.

Fill each stove with an equal amount of meths.

Fill each stove's pot with an equal amount of water, and make sure the water is the same temperature.

Light each of the stoves simultaneously.

Time how long each stove takes to boil, and also check temperature jumps from time to time.

That's about the most accurate test you can do for a stove, IMHO.

 

[Bumblebee]

Go into your garage, a place with a still wind.

Fill each stove with an equal amount of meths.

Fill each stove's pot with an equal amount of water, and make sure the water is the same temperature.

Light each of the stoves simultaneously.

Time how long each stove takes to boil, and also check temperature jumps from time to time.

That's about the most accurate test you can do for a stove, IMHO.

Yup, did all that except I used our shed instead of a garage.

 

[MagiKelly]

And I did mine in the kitchen.

Also I thought if I spelled it differently each time one of them was bound to be correct

 

[oops56]

And I did mine in the kitchen.

Also I thought if I spelled it differently each time one of them was bound to be correct

Well i got them real old one plus the new trangia 12 oz boil 5 min. I got 3 of them jiffy heet ones all alum. boil time 3 min. 12 oz plus the jiffy no need pot stand its all in the box about 3 in sq. ok thats all i got to say for now

 

[addyb]

I'm still not sold on the Tatonka burner. Here's why:

I think I've said it twice in this thread already, stainless steel is a very poor heat conductor. In fact, Trangia quotes this on their webpage, that meths dont put out enought BTU's to cook properly with a stainless steel pot. And so they came up with duossal, which is cookware that is aluminum on the outside (aluminum is an amazing heat conducting metal, perhaps second to gold) and stainless steel on the inside of the pot for hygenic reasons.

And so my feeling is that a stainless steel meth burner won't do the trick as well as brass. Of course, that shiny new Trangia burner that a person buys the previous year is obviously dark and corroded by now.

Now, your test is as all very good and well, but I won't be completely sold on the Tatonka burner until I see some real-world use.

The Fall season is upon us, and winter will be coming soon. Perhaps you could do a winter bushcraft exercise and let us know how it works out? A shed is one thing, but below freezing temperatues and howling winds at altitude are another.

And then can you answer a question for me? Will Trangia/Tatonka burners melt a pot of snow in the wintertime? Or is meth's low BTU output only good for 3 season backpacking?

Cheers mate!

Adam

 

[capacious]

Well addyb, in case you were still having sleepless nights over this, I thought I'd answer your questions.

I went out in deepest darkest february and tested all the burners as well as I could.

All meths burners melted snow, and oddly enough, the tatonka did it first by quite a margin. I guess this may be because stainless steel gains heat as fast as it loses it.

I think I've said it twice in this thread already, stainless steel is a very poor heat conductor. In fact, Trangia quotes this on their webpage, that meths dont put out enought BTU's to cook properly with a stainless steel pot. And so they came up with duossal, which is cookware that is aluminum on the outside (aluminum is an amazing heat conducting metal, perhaps second to gold) and stainless steel on the inside of the pot for hygenic reasons.

I was cooking in a Tatonka kettle and a crusader cup, both stainless steel, and both worked just fine with the meths burners. I've never used anything but stainless steel as cookware, so I can't say that they are better or worse than any other, but they certainly worked for me.

If you consider the prices of all three burners, £10 for the tatonka with flame adjuster, £13.50 for the civi trangia with flame adjuster and £10 for the swedish army trangia with a whole cookset and windshield, then I would say that if you were on a tight budget go for the Army Trangia. Otherwise, you can get whatever suits you.

The differences in performance are so utterly miniscule that you would have to be the most anal person in existence to moan about having to wait an extra 3 seconds for your boiled water.

I will be sticking with the Totonka, partly because it cools down faster, and partly because I lost my trangia burner

And also, meths burners are fantastic at low temperatures - it is one of trangias selling points. Below freezing, gas burners become ludicrously inefficient. The only other option is petrol stoves, which are bulky, heavy, and if you accidentally spill fuel on the lit burner :aargh4: you'd be pretty knackered.

In the 'real world', the differences that set one above another in a lab test have no meaning.

If you want a meths burner, but fancy something different to what the crowds have, then tatonka is for you.

If you want great after sales service then trangia are far better.

If you just want to cook some breakfast, then get whatever the hell you like.

Jake.

 

[jason01]

If youre going to be doing some cooking on the fire you cant beat the flexibility of the Swedish army kit, though they are pretty slow when used with the burner.

I think the windhsield/stove support/pot have more effect on cooking times than the burner. For lightweight, efficiency and value I like this set up, one with civvy burner one with army burner, add a lightweight pot of your choice

they weigh next to nothing, pack to nothing and with an MSR foil windshield they boil a pint in under 5 minutes, they also cost me nothing to make and Ive designed them so that I can slip a nitelight underneath to preheat the burner in ultra quick time. Ive tested them with a 20L pot on top so theyre pretty tough as well.

LOL and Ive just noticed the smaller one of the two is assembled inside out, the potstands should be pointing the other way, not that it matters particularly

Ive edited this post to say it brings a pint to the boil in under 5 minutes, not as previously stated under 4 minutes, thats in a approx 2.5L stainless steel whistling kettle with the burner already up to temp, ambient temp in the garden 6 degC and water temp started off at approx 7.5 deg. Tested using regular blue meths and the swedish army burner.

 

[scanker]

They look excellent Jason. Which burner is which?

 

[MagiKelly]

You wouldn't happen to have a spare one of those that you wanted rid of Jason?

 

[jason01]

They look excellent Jason. Which burner is which?

Scanker, the one on the left of the pic is the trangia, the bigger one on the right is the army burner.

The design is not really mine though, Ive based them on pictures Ive seeen of the no longer produced Westwind, with a few tweaks. Those two are stainless but you could make them out of any sheet metal of sufficient strength. The only thing to watch is that they hug the burner tightly, if you get the dimensions wrong they could end up being a bit rattly and wobbly.

You wouldn't happen to have a spare one of those that you wanted rid of Jason?

Ive made a few to give to mates John but cutting stainless sheet by hand in any quantity can get a bit tedious and painful so no spares Im afraid, but they are pretty easy to make if you have some tin snips and a couple of hours. Motorbikeman has a copy of my plans for both of them that he's supposed to be scanning and hosting somewhere I could post out paper templates though if anybody wants a set.

Or you can always spend a small fortune on the prettier and more complicated clickstand to do exactly the same job

This is what they look like dissasembled, army burner on the right and a complete kit with trangia burner, stand, windshield and a very small pot in the bag.

 

[capacious]

Has anyone got a link to this clickstand which is mentioned rather alot?

I'm looking for something to use with a meths burner but without having to lug around a full trangia for 300 miles.

Jake.

 

[scanker]

http://www.clikstand.com/

 

[oops56]

Well here is one kind that i make for mine cost less its 1/16 x1-1/4 alum. get it at the hardware store about 4 ft long make a cross put slots to fit my two cents it must touch the ridge

 

[jason01]

Well here is one kind that i make for mine cost less its 1/16 x1-1/4 alum. get it at the hardware store about 4 ft long make a cross put slots to fit my two cents it must touch the ridge

Ooops, your picture looks a bit small, I cant make anything out?

 

[capacious]

Thanks. oops56, have you got a bigger picture?

Thanks,

Jake.

 

[Martyn]

I've looked at the Tatonka, and it interests me except for one thing:

It's stainless steel, and stainless steel is an absolutely horrific heat conductor. Meths dont' put out a lot of BTU's, and theres a reason why Trangia's are brass.

So how does it stack up against the original?

A.

The original is quite a bit better IMO in several ways. I found the original quicker tyo heat up and burned with a hotter flame and I found the seal and screw on cap of the original to be better. Just my opinion of course, others may differ.

 

[MagiKelly]

The original is quite a bit better IMO in several ways. I found the original quicker tyo heat up and burned with a hotter flame and I found the seal and screw on cap of the original to be better. Just my opinion of course, others may differ.

I tried the steel one for a few trips but always felt it was slower. I have no evidence to this effect but it just seemed that way so I switched back to the civi version.

 

[Martyn]

I tried the steel one for a few trips but always felt it was slower. I have no evidence to this effect but it just seemed that way so I switched back to the civi version.

Same here really John, no evidence, I just felt the civvi burner was better.

 

[Hellz]

Could someone just clarify the difference between the army burner and the civi burner? I got the Swedish Army kit after seeing one at the Kent meet, I really like it but it's a bit bulky just making a cuppa whilst out walking (which is why I've got my eye on the Trangia mini or the clikstand...)

Thanks,
Hellz

 

[Martyn]

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=3080