A right to roam.

[Fluxus]

Following the national trust thread, I was wondering what forum members feel about the topic of land ownership in the UK? We all know what the law is and of course will not condone law breaking of any kind in accordance with the rules of the forum..........but......... is the law right and justified?

Should the historical dispossesion of the common folk of these islands be accepted because that is the way things are today or should we (legally) challenge the enclosures of the commons which mean we have to buy, beg or grovel for access to the land that once was ours?

 

[Ginger]

Well, there's no doubting what your thoughts are on this Fluxus!

I find it remarkable that the British do so little about the astonishing concentration of land ownership in their country.

But then, as a people, they were oppressed by a class system that few other countries could match for centuries. I say this having lived in Germany and the US, and having travelled all over this planet. There are other places where the ordinary folks are looked down upon the way they are in Britain, but there are few of those places. When I say "looked down upon", I mean "where the common folks are considered to have so little right to make decisions about resources".

Personally, I think that Britain was following along pretty much the same path as any other Scando-Germanic country until the Battle of Hastings. After that battle, the land was parcelled up and handed out as rewards to those who had helped the Norman victors. Not only was land ownership concentrated, but political power, (legislative power, judicial power and executive power) were concentrated among remarkably few "nobles" who were birth or marriage related to those Norman victors. I think at this point Britain's political and legislative path diverged from the Dutch, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Icelandic paths to be what is has been and what it is today.

I think we passively participate in this by leaving historical wrongs unchallenged (eg why does the Duke of Westminster or Duke of Buccleugh own anything more than a mortaged suburban semi?) and by actively paying people to deprive of us of our right to live live freely as a democracy should enable. For example, at a time when our politicians (the legislative power I mentioned above) are claiming they care about the environment, planners - under planning legislation, are entering - what - their fifth year of trying to have Tony Wrench demolish the low impact roundhouse he built in Wales.

Verily, the Normans still own us and verily, we not only do nothing about it, but we pay them taxes so they can pay the salaries of people whose job it is to keep us down!

 

[Carcajou Garou]

I have no real understanding as to not having access to the bush wherever and whenever I wish. Here we call it ironicly "Crown Land" it belongs to all Canadians except for very small privately owned sections and access is open unless there is a fire restriction. I wish you well in your quest for access and thank the Creator for our gift here in Canada.
just a thought

 

[bambodoggy]

just a few points from me before this thread degenerates into the argument that it no doubt will.....and is then rightly closed by one of our moderators.

Why is it automatically thought that because it is historic that it's bad....Britain is one of the richest countries in the world so the system seems to have worked pretty well so far....we have little (relatively) poverty and a very generous welfare system.

We do live in a democracy...if you don't like it then you vote against it, if your view doesn't get into power then that's tough...the majority want the people in power as they voted for them. If you don't like that and want everyone to have your view you are a dictator regardless of whether your leanings are to the left or right.

The law is as it is and if you wish to change it then rather than causing a nuisance and trespassing and winding up landowners why don't you lobby your MP...that's what they are there for.
By using trespass, which is essentially "direct action" you are in effect a bully...too lazy to put in the effort to change things properly you resort to forcing your way into and across places you have no "legal" right to be. all this does is make it harder for those of us who also would like access to go anywhere because you have upset the landlord, paint us in a bad light and make the legal challenges even harder.

I'm not being drawn into another argument on here, this is how I feel and I can't see that changing.
I am not a landowner in any way so have no vested interest.

Other than messing up access for the rest of us I fail to see what this has to do with "Bushcraft Chatter" either.

Phil.

 

[george]

Interesting. Up here in Scotland things are very different than they are down south. Recent legislative changes are bringing about all sorts of changes, not least the right of pretty much free access to the countryside. Communities are being given the right to buy their own land, helped by a fund specifically set up to do just that. Crofting communities are being given the right (under very specific circumstances) to force landlords to sell whether they want to or not. Basically the Scottish Executive are recognising that free access to the land and the ability to affect decisions made about it are pretty crucial if we want to move on from what was until very recently an outdated feudal system.

Read about the Highland clearances if you haven't already - that will tell you why feeling about the land up here are still so strong.

I sympathise with those of you who have to deal with the situation in England (and I presume Wales too) I've always taken the right of free access pretty much for granted.

george

 

[bambodoggy]

sorry just to clarify....I'm all for the right to roam and better access I just choose to go about it in a legal and honest way and not by trying to bully my way through places and breaking the law.

George....you're very lucky up there but as you say, it's been a while in coming if you look back towards the clearances....