A Rethink of Green

[Tengu]

Idly flicking through a book on Plastics...seems to be selling new (not even old) solutions.

(I for one, own enough bedding to never need a sheet ever again...)

So maybe the Green movement is wrong, we do not need to do more...we maybe need to do less.

Like the Fast fashion problem...this could be solved in a minute if we all A) Bought less (Maybe the stuff we are not going to use) and B) bough quality.

Where is the hardship in that?

So, since an economic downturn is inevitable...do we need to all work so hard?

What would be wrong with a four day week instead of a five?

Or, if you have made your fortune, why not sit back and enjoy it? (My Uncle retired at 50...)

What do you think?

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Yes to all the above.

 

[TeeDee]

Idly flicking through a book on Plastics...seems to be selling new (not even old) solutions.

(I for one, own enough bedding to never need a sheet ever again...)

So maybe the Green movement is wrong, we do not need to do more...we maybe need to do less.

Like the Fast fashion problem...this could be solved in a minute if we all A) Bought less (Maybe the stuff we are not going to use) and B) bough quality.

Where is the hardship in that?

So, since an economic downturn is inevitable...do we need to all work so hard?

What would be wrong with a four day week instead of a five?

Or, if you have made your fortune, why not sit back and enjoy it? (My Uncle retired at 50...)

What do you think?

Are we ALL getting paid the same for the four day week we do turn up as we do currently?

 

[Tengu]

Yes, but only if you can fit 5 days worth of productivity into 4...

 

[William_Montgomery]

You need to work the 6th day to cover the ULEZ charge.

 

[Pattree]

I’ve always said that the most important survival skill is probably negotiation.
A four day working week is a great idea if you can persuade someone to pay you enough for it. A friend has just negotiated exactly that. He has alternate Mondays and Fridays off so every other weekend is four days.

The world is where it is and it’s got here in stages.
If everyone suddenly cut out cheap clothes and made everything last longer there would probably be catastrophic starvation in parts of Asia.

Same goes for food miles. If we all stopped eating bananas and drinking coffee we’d precipitate disaster at a distance.
It’s not easy I know. I have decided that I have enough clothing never to need any more new ( well there are the items that a gentleman doesn’t discuss but other than socks ……)
Fashionable I ain’t.

If I was honest with myself I don’t need any more new camp kit either.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Are we ALL getting paid the same for the four day week we do turn up as we do currently?

When France adopted the 35 hour week (from 39 hours) in 2000-2002, there wasn't a drop in salaries. But it's all about productivity & not the number of hours at the work place. France remains more productive than the UK, despite a shorter working week & more holidays.

 

[Toddy]

I like the adage about us all living a little more simply so that others might simply live.

Our society though is based on 'more', wanting more, wanting security, wanting not to lack, wanting to make a profit from the homes we live in.....to turn all that upside down would need a revolution.

Kipling wrote,
“These are the four that are never content: that have never been filled since the dew began-
Jacala's mouth, and the glut of the kite, and the hands of the ape, and the eyes of Man.”

Personally I think, 'enough is a great wealth', and I wish you all good health and enough wherewithal to enjoy it

M

 

[Woody girl]

I came to this conclusion a while back. I only buy "new" from the charity shop. I have almost all I need, so now I have my wool duvet and pillow, rather than buying cheap ones every few years, I won't have to buy that again. Buy new wisely, cut out as much plastic as you can, save for durable and ecologicaly sound items to replace the cheap, plastic crap, and we can do it.
I now only buy wool, pure cotton or linnen clothing from the charity shops. I won't buy nylon or synthetics anymore. Some things are just not possible, sunglasses for instance, but wire frame reading or sight glasses are.
I did an inventory of my bathroom a while back for plastic. It was horrifying! Slowly I'm now searching out non plastic alternatives. Tooth brushes and toothpaste, talc in proper tins, ( cuticura) wooden nail brush, China soap dishes, hand made soap instead of shower gel, and refillable shampoo and conditioner. (Faith in nature) and natural loofah instead of plastic handled back brush.
Found a book that shows how to make natural cosmetics deodorant etc, and cleaning products instead of buying bottles of harsh chemicals.
I shall soon be hunting horse chestnuts to make clothes washing liquid.
This all fits in with my bushcraft lifestyle, and fills the TV- less hours. This weekend I turned two feet of otherwise useless bailer twine into a nice bit of fishing line, plastics have their place, but I repurposed the bailer twine into something useful rather than just throw it away.
I made used compost bags into hanging basket liners, most of my lampshades are now glass, charity shop finds again, which require a quick wash to refresh now and then and don't shed plastic into my home. Carpets are something I want to tackle soon, but I can't afford it right now. But its on the list!
Yes we need less, stripping down to the basics is not putting people in China out of jobs, they will adapt to providing what people want. If we don't buy plastic tat, then they will not make it. They only make it to get your money, so only buy when needed and keep out as much of the plastic as you can. I don't buy bottled water or soft drinks unless they come in glass bottles, like when I was a kid..anyone remember collecting tizer bottles for that penny or two to add to your pocket money?
my milk is in refillable glass bottles. It can be done.. it was in the past, to say its not possible now is rubbish.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

anyone remember collecting tizer bottles for that penny or two to add to your pocket money?

Sure do but not just Tizer (does that still exist ?) any soft drink bottles. Taking the found bottles back to the sweet shop was surely good business sense for the shop keeper, as we invariably spent our gains on sweets. 2 fruit salades & 2 black jacks for a penny. Aye, those were't days.

 

[demographic]

I've worked on a few sites where I've been able to do a four day working week.
Start work ag seve AM, work through to 17:30 (10 hours worked) and take Friday off.
20% less fuel used to get to and from work, 20% less wear and tear on the van.
o e less days worth of unloading, and loading the van time wasted, and one 20 min ait ti.e less for whoever I'm working to pay for.
I have a good weekend and arrive back refreshed and more productive.

Not so good on sites too far away from home though.

 

[Woody girl]

O M G! I need blackjacks right NOW!
I just adored them, and black cat ( liquorice flavour) bubble gum.
Coca cola tastes better from glass bottles, especially without all the synthetic sweetners. (Which have been proved to be cancer causing in some cases)
I get more and more nostalgic for the ways we once were so content without constantly wanting more, bigger and (so called) better.
My brother and I as kids would spend hours playing tank obstacle courses ,with "tanks" made of cotton reels, a pencil stub, and elastic band, with various household items as obstacles on the kitchen table of a winter evening.
I made a hobby horse out of an old sock, some buttons, knitting wool and a broken bean pole. Spent hours riding my " pony " over bricks and bean poles, winning Hickstead, or Derby on every occasion...even made my own ribbon rosettes!

 

[TeeDee]

When France adopted the 35 hour week (from 39 hours) in 2000-2002, there wasn't a drop in salaries. But it's all about productivity & not the number of hours at the work place. France remains more productive than the UK, despite a shorter working week & more holidays.

I meant that if everyone moves to the same standard hours you maintain the parity of balance - when the subject of the experiment of UBI was raised a few years back it was base on a notion of a certain few postcodes receiving it.

This would certainly affect localised economics I think. So if and as long as everyone has the same level of equality and equity it would work.

If.

 

[Pattree]

One issue has always been the service industries that cater for our exploitation of our free time. Are we all having the same days off?

I know we talk about max and supersize snacks and meals today but shrinkflation has seen everything from wagon wheels to chocolate bars and Quality Street getting smaller and smaller. I hate to think what a BlackJack would look like today. That’s after you’ve pushed your way through the picket line protesting about the shop even selling them.

 

[slowworm]

So maybe the Green movement is wrong, we do not need to do more...we maybe need to do less.

What is the green movement? I'd be hard pressed to define one, it often seems to be a do as I say not as I do movement.

I wouldn't class myself as green but jumped off the endless growth bandwagon many years ago.

Many people would agree with you Tengu but we're in a tiny minority. How to get more to understand is the issue, including many who think there're green when it suits.

 

[ONE]

O M G! I need blackjacks right NOW!

Blackjacks, Fruit Salads, Hulks, Phantoms... And another chewy thing that had secret agents on the wrapper. Grandad used to get me a ten penny mixup from the corner shop and give it to me at bedtime when I stayed with them. At that stage, BTW a "10p mixup" contained at least ten items...

But we digress somewhat, buying less by buying quality , let's hear from one of the great oracles of our age Sir Terence Pratchett, via his creation, Sam Vimes, Captain of the Ankh-Morpok City Watch.

"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. ... A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. ... But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet"

 

[Woody girl]

Blackjacks, Fruit Salads, Hulks, Phantoms... And another chewy thing that had secret agents on the wrapper. Grandad used to get me a ten penny mixup from the corner shop and give it to me at bedtime when I stayed with them. At that stage, BTW a "10p mixup" contained at least ten items...

But we digress somewhat, buying less by buying quality , let's hear from one of the great oracles of our age Sir Terence Pratchett, via his creation, Sam Vimes, Captain of the Ankh-Morpok City Watch.

"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. ... A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. ... But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet"

Absolutely,
This is how the poor are kept poor, and the rich get richer.
I've spent a part of my life around rich people, and saw how it worked. I changed how I spent money, and the great thing about charity shops is if you look for labels, you can be as well dressed as any person richer than you, and blend in very well with nobody being any the wiser.

 

[Nice65]

I’m terrible for buying stuff, but I do make sure it’s sound quality before I do. I bought a Keela Falkland in 2010 which cost a lot of money. And some Bates boots that weren’t cheap. I’m still using the Keela, I’ve sent it off to them for repairs and cuff replacement a couple of times, I shut a clip in the car door and they replaced that too. My mum constantly harps on about the prices I’ll pay for decent clothing, but I retired the boots last season and still wear the coat. I was driving a 2003 Toyota, but it really did give up it’s ghost, so I replaced it with with a 2005 model and expect to get at least another 10 years out of it.

There are a lot of people who attend festivals every year with complete self delusion they’re part of a move forward spiritually and mentally who just leave literally all their gear for someone else to pick up, disappearing back to their blinkered lives, some of them no doubt soothed by the notion ‘it’s ok, they give it the homeless and third world countries’. This and chuckaway plastic clothing from places like Matalan needs to stop.

 

[haptalaon]

One issue has always been the service industries that cater for our exploitation of our free time. Are we all having the same days off?

It's a good thought, & it'd be important that people in those industries also had the opportunity for more free time. and it's probably right to create a norm of at least one day a week which everyone has off, so you know when your family and friends will be free.

But that could be nice? It might lead to new innovations in how we socialise. Restaurants are shut but everyone heads down the woods for a barbecue together. Structures which are less (underpaid, very stressed) service provider & customer treating them as a service dispenser, and more peer-to-peer and mutual.

 

[GreyCat]

I’m terrible for buying stuff, but I do make sure it’s sound quality before I do. I bought a Keela Falkland in 2010 which cost a lot of money. And some Bates boots that weren’t cheap. I’m still using the Keela, I’ve sent it off to them for repairs and cuff replacement a couple of times, I shut a clip in the car door and they replaced that too. My mum constantly harps on about the prices I’ll pay for decent clothing, but I retired the boots last season and still wear the coat. I was driving a 2003 Toyota, but it really did give up it’s ghost, so I replaced it with with a 2005 model and expect to get at least another 10 years out of it.

There are a lot of people who attend festivals every year with complete self delusion they’re part of a move forward spiritually and mentally who just leave literally all their gear for someone else to pick up, disappearing back to their blinkered lives, some of them no doubt soothed by the notion ‘it’s ok, they give it the homeless and third world countries’. This and chuckaway plastic clothing from places like Matalan needs to stop.

Clothing should be very costly due to the labour and resources that go into making it. The only reason it's not is that those who make are typically on slave wages, and the real cost of making fibre (e.g. requirements for growing cotton) are not built into the price. Fabric made from good quality long-staple cotton, linen or hemp fibre is a much better indicator of what fabric price should be.

Making your own clothes is an education. If you're going to spend 2 or 3 days over your weekends making up a top, it motivates buying decent fabric that lasts and is classic rather than fashionable. (TBH, I no longer like shop-made clothes because the fabrics are so naff compared to what you can have if you make your own clobber!)

GC