60mph Speed Limit on Motorways, your thoughts?

[Toddy]

Wingstoo, anyone who loses a child to a car accident has our sincerest sympathy, but it's still not the discussion.
We all cried over Drew; it was a major unkindness to throw that into this thread.

I do stop when on long hauls; but it's still time. Time, time, time that I can't do anything else with but sit and drive, or sit and have a coffee, stretch my legs but knowing I have to get back in the car and drive again until journey's end.

You might have the luxury of time enough to dawdle, but I live in the lowlands and I was working here, but the next day I was working in Skye, the next in Moray, the next in Stirling, then headed down south to Warwick.
Time, time, time.
I take time to sleep, to work, to drive there and back safely.....at 70mph, not dawdling along at 45.

I hate being tailgated, I make huge efforts not to do it to anyone else; but either do the speed or get out of the lane because there are a lot more impatient people than I am, and they will tailgate/ flash lights/ undertake in their frustration at the oblivious bunnet brigade.

Very few accidents are caused by mechanical issues such as a blown tyre; on motorways most are caused when changing lanes and from driving too closely behind someone else.

The only accident I've ever had was less than 2miles from home, I was doing all of 5mph and a woman drove into me at a roundabout she said it was her second accident that day

I think the double chevron things down south are very good and wish there were more of them around; it makes folks subliminally aware of distance apart and it spreads out the flow enough that not only is it safer but it's less congested.

The roads are busier now than they have ever been, but I wonder if that's reaching some kind of plateau, because we can each only drive one vehicle at a time so there has to be a limit. 245,000 miles of road in the UK. About 33million of us have full driving licences. So at the utmost limit, with every single person out there driving at once there can only be 124 people per mile on average.
Motorways though, they and the A roads only account for 13% of the network, yet they are used for 65% of the traffic.
Slowing them down is not going to improve things, except for blood pressure tablets

A little care, and we can all go about our business without incident in a reasonable time.

Anyway; my tuppence ha'penny worth.

M

 

[789987]

I often wonder why people who drive (all of us, me included at times) feel that it is ok to break the law, often on a daily basis, it might only be a little bit, but we tend to get very indignant when caught get fined and have to pay a penalty...

Now if someone does a little bit of shoplifting every day for a year or something similar we all get up in arms about it if they go to court and get a slap on the wrist punishment...

Both things are breaking the law.

If they lower the speed limit by statute, we by law all have to stick with it or suffer the consequences if we get caught, it isn't because we are a police state, it is because the police are doing their job, simple as that.

I know what I am trying to say, but no doubt it will be turned over by someone... C'est la vie.

look back at post 10. its a matter of time before we have the option to drive oneself removed. then along with the smart wristbands and phones your every waking minute will be monitored and any chance of freedom will be removed and whoever decides to deviate from the norm - say a spot of sleeping technology free in a wood - will be labeled a weirdo or a subversive.

every day freedoms are removed from people and theres always a case that can be brought for it. problem is i dont see any freedoms being instated to counter the direction society is moving in. every action in life has an inherent risk to it and theres only so much you can pad and cushion before you suffocate.

(this isnt political, merely a social observation)

 

[789987]

The strange thing is... this country is a "democracy" and therefor the "government" is doing the "will of the people" so it is the general public that is, in effect, making all the running.
Going against the rulings of the government is therefor going against the will of the people - ie you are being a selfish, inconsiderate, anti-social hoodlum.
If you don't like the way that the incumbent government is handling things you have the right to vote them out and vote in folk who will do what you do want to see happen.
If you break the laws set in place by the will of he people then you deserve the punishment that the will of the people has determined is appropriate.
I hope this is not seen as "politics" - I am just trying to illuminate the system....

the problem being knee jerk reactions carried through by the media chasing shock value ratings. if the media didnt have an interest in selling stories through drama the system might have more of a chance.

 

[Robmc]

.........Very few accidents are caused by mechanical issues such as a blown tyre; on motorways most are caused when changing lanes and from driving too closely behind someone else................

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. I used to work driving recovery trucks and we had to attend accidents as we had a contract with the police force. I have attended hundreds of accidents caused by blown tyres or failed steering components. They are quite common.

 

[Toddy]

I didn't say they weren't. I did say that that something else was the more usual cause of accidents.

From RoSPA's website:

What are the most common causes of road accidents?

Failed to Look Properly
40% of road crashes involve someone who 'failed to look properly'.

Loss of Control
One third of fatal crashes involved 'loss of control' of a vehicle.

Failed to Judge Other Person's Path/Speed
One in five crashes involve a road user failing to judge another person's path or speed.

M

 

[santaman2000]

There was talk last year about installing software in cars that can monitor your driving trends, this was supposedly to make drivers drive more responsibly and lower their insurance premiums, the 60 limit I think is the start of the private motorways with unregulated speed limits.

Most modern (last 15-20 years) already have a "black box" that the manufacturer can access "limited" driving data from.

 

[santaman2000]

I didn't say they weren't. I did say that that something else was the more usual cause of accidents.

From RoSPA's website:

What are the most common causes of road accidents?

Failed to Look Properly
40% of road crashes involve someone who 'failed to look properly'.

Loss of Control
One third of fatal crashes involved 'loss of control' of a vehicle.

Failed to Judge Other Person's Path/Speed
One in five crashes involve a road user failing to judge another person's path or speed.

M

I suspect most of those ("loss of control" --- "Failure to judge other person's path" --- "failed to look properly" can be traced to this http://youtu.be/7OUtGSRItUc

 

[wingstoo]

Wingstoo, anyone who loses a child to a car accident has our sincerest sympathy, but it's still not the discussion.
We all cried over Drew; it was a major unkindness to throw that into this thread.

I do stop when on long hauls; but it's still time. Time, time, time that I can't do anything else with but sit and drive, or sit and have a coffee, stretch my legs but knowing I have to get back in the car and drive again until journey's end.

You might have the luxury of time enough to dawdle, but I live in the lowlands and I was working here, but the next day I was working in Skye, the next in Moray, the next in Stirling, then headed down south to Warwick.
Time, time, time.
I take time to sleep, to work, to drive there and back safely.....at 70mph, not dawdling along at 45.

I hate being tailgated, I make huge efforts not to do it to anyone else; but either do the speed or get out of the lane because there are a lot more impatient people than I am, and they will tailgate/ flash lights/ undertake in their frustration at the oblivious bunnet brigade.

Very few accidents are caused by mechanical issues such as a blown tyre; on motorways most are caused when changing lanes and from driving too closely behind someone else.

The only accident I've ever had was less than 2miles from home, I was doing all of 5mph and a woman drove into me at a roundabout she said it was her second accident that day

I think the double chevron things down south are very good and wish there were more of them around; it makes folks subliminally aware of distance apart and it spreads out the flow enough that not only is it safer but it's less congested.

The roads are busier now than they have ever been, but I wonder if that's reaching some kind of plateau, because we can each only drive one vehicle at a time so there has to be a limit. 245,000 miles of road in the UK. About 33million of us have full driving licences. So at the utmost limit, with every single person out there driving at once there can only be 124 people per mile on average.
Motorways though, they and the A roads only account for 13% of the network, yet they are used for 65% of the traffic.
Slowing them down is not going to improve things, except for blood pressure tablets

A little care, and we can all go about our business without incident in a reasonable time.

Anyway; my tuppence ha'penny worth.

M

Yes Mary we were all upset at the loss of Drew, and the circumstances behind what happened from start to finish should act as something we should all be aware of... He left home, said tadibye to his family and never got home again, and a car incident was the cause.

It might not be part of the original point but since then people have advocated driving at 80+ MPH because at times the only person on the road is them. at those sorts of speeds it doesn't take long for lots of things to happen, normal accidents take less than a second to happen, they can go on for a lot longer though and cause even more problems to everyone else on the road.


If you were doing that sort of mileage then you or your employer were wrong to try and do it... In my industry we have a thing called "Duty of care" which means that my employer has a duty to make sure I don't come to any harm and doing that kind of mileage in those sort of times/conditions would be a breach of those rules. It isn't a case of dawdling, it is a case of being safe for both myself, my family and everyone else around me on the roads as well as at home.

I keep to speed limits, or less, my work colleagues laugh when I give them a lift as they say it is like "Driving Miss daisy"... but I am the one who hasn't written off a couple of company vans...I still get to where I am going, a lot less stressed and in one piece.

Slowing down does improve things, it gives more time between where you are and being up behind the back end of the queue in front of you, a good steady pace by everyone and having lane discipline would work wonders, as would good manners with queue jumpers forcing their way onto slip roads when they have had a mile or so to join the line.

Slowing down also gives you more time to think and react.

I really would recommend everyone to get a group together and do a similar thing to the speed awareness course, through work would be a good place to start, it really is an eye opener, after all most people just keep plodding on for years and years from the date they took their tests, I have to re-take my gas certification at the moment, it costs several thousands every 4 years...But nothing has really changed since I worked on gas 30 years ago, it still burns and it still goes bang, but in that time the roads and cars have changed dramatically... Too many safety features makes for riskier driving and a feeling that it is safer to drive faster.

As they say "Only a fool breaks the two second rule" and as the instructors told us, if someone takes your gap, give them some more, after all it is better to be a little late in this world than the rest of your life too early in the next one.

 

[Toddy]

Slowing down by twenty mph from 70 to 50 just means I waste my life sitting in a car. I get tired sitting doing nothing but driving. The statistics show the reality that a tiny, tiny, percentage of journeys become accidents, and that's with a 70mph speed limit.

Driving long and disparate distances is familiar to many people; 50mph over a week would add a day of travelling onto it.

Public transport isn't the answer; anyone who tries to travel by bus and train knows just how long you can spend waiting, waiting, waiting

I'm quite happy to share my journeys though

"If someone takes your gap, give them some more" spacing is good, flow of traffic is good, crawling and causing frustration isn't. It's not rocket science to pull over and let someone by. I do it all the time on unfamiliar backroads.


M

 

[Big Stu 12]

I was going to ignore this one... but speed is not the only dangerous thing on our roads.....

How many vehicles/cars/bikes do you see over loaded with passengers/goods/luggage..., or even all three....

I dont go much above 50 to 60 i drive a Landy, and my bike has been laid up for about 3 years....

 

[Toddy]

You know what scares me ? those bikes with tiny little baby seats on the back.

I will crawl behind a bike until I can pass with masses of room, but those little seats give me the heebie-jeebies.

I know folks want to cycle with their kids, but there are roads and there are roads. Some are just not safe for cyclists.

M

 

[santaman2000]

Slowing down by twenty mph from 70 to 50 just means I waste my life sitting in a car. I get tired sitting doing nothing but driving.....

I'm not usually bored if I'm doing the driving. But riding as a passenger? That's another story.

TBH I like long road trips. Always have. BUT! As you and others have said, you need to take proper breaks every few hours. Not really that hard though; you have to stop to refuel anyway. Although some of the cars with better mileage might be pretty far between refueling stops, but then, they'd also not likelky be the type cars big enough to be comfortable enough for a longer road trip (I wouldn't want to drive cross country in a Mini) But even so, at my age a bathroom break is in order every few hours and then there's the lunch stop.

 

[wingstoo]

Remember an important factor

Those little numbers inside the red ring are a LIMIT, they are not a TARGET.

If you like using stats and figures and then twist and turn them to your wanting then here is one, 5% of accidents are caused by drink drivers, it is therefore "logical" that 95% are caused by people who are stone cold sober, so using some peoples logic it should be safer to drive whilst drunk as it only causes 1 in 20 accidents.

From RoSPA's website:

What are the most common causes of road accidents?

Failed to Look Properly
40% of road crashes involve someone who 'failed to look properly'.

Loss of Control
One third of fatal crashes involved 'loss of control' of a vehicle.

Failed to Judge Other Person's Path/Speed
One in five crashes involve a road user failing to judge another person's path or speed.

What was the other 7% caused by?

40% + 33% + 20% = 93%, maybe by people who are bored and therefore not giving their full attention to the task in hand.

Remember, it is a LIMIT, it isn't a TARGET, which doesn't mean you have to drive at the limit, but it does mean you shouldn't go over it.

From some of the replies I have been reading here I think it would be a good idea for a fair few to pick up a copy of the Highway code and spend a bit of time reading it.

 

[wingstoo]

http://www.ldcdownloads.co.uk/pdfs/highwaycode.pdf

It's free, and amazingly full of useful information.

 

[Headshed]

We always know that a minority will speed regardless, but I think it's wrong to reduce the NSL by stealth to 50mph from 60mph or 70mph to 60mph on a motorway for the sake of a flawed belief it will improve emissions, if it's safety related then fine. But as others have said are the Germans, French or any other country reducing there limits to comply with the EU regulation or are they taking alternative action? If so what are they doing? Why is that the department for transport can only suggest lowering the limit?

 

[sasquatch]

Used to think nothing of 16 hour each way road trips in Canada to go skiing and snowboarding. Since moving to the uk I find no joy in driving even short distances...

 

[Andy BB]

Remember an important factor

Those little numbers inside the red ring are a LIMIT, they are not a TARGET.

If you like using stats and figures and then twist and turn them to your wanting then here is one, 5% of accidents are caused by drink drivers, it is therefore "logical" that 95% are caused by people who are stone cold sober, so using some peoples logic it should be safer to drive whilst drunk as it only causes 1 in 20 accidents.

From RoSPA's website:

What are the most common causes of road accidents?

Failed to Look Properly
40% of road crashes involve someone who 'failed to look properly'.

Loss of Control
One third of fatal crashes involved 'loss of control' of a vehicle.

Failed to Judge Other Person's Path/Speed
One in five crashes involve a road user failing to judge another person's path or speed.

What was the other 7% caused by?

40% + 33% + 20% = 93%, maybe by people who are bored and therefore not giving their full attention to the task in hand.

Remember, it is a LIMIT, it isn't a TARGET, which doesn't mean you have to drive at the limit, but it does mean you shouldn't go over it.

From some of the replies I have been reading here I think it would be a good idea for a fair few to pick up a copy of the Highway code and spend a bit of time reading it.

Actually, its from people failing to notice that the stats aren't necessarily related. One refers to road crashes, three refers to crashes, the second refers to fatal crashes............................................. (..and none mention speed as a causal factor....)

 

[mrcharly]

Conversation is just that; provocation is another.


On the speed limit thing; no I'm not a fan of lowering the limits.

On the whole the motorways move traffic along at a good lick, only in the suburbs do they become ensnarled, and there the sheer volume of traffic limits the speed.

Mary

Ha ha ha

This proposed reduction is on one part of the motorway. It's a screaming joke as at any time other than 2am-5am there is so much traffic on that bit that the average speed is closer to 40mph rather than 70mph.

Have you never heard of the M25 being called the biggest car park in the world? If only it were a joke.

 

[Stew]

If the limit is reduced, are they actually going to start policing it? Let's be honest, there are lots and lots of people who go over 70 on the motorway. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a majority but I have no facts to back that up.

 

[Toddy]

Ha ha ha

This proposed reduction is on one part of the motorway. It's a screaming joke as at any time other than 2am-5am there is so much traffic on that bit that the average speed is closer to 40mph rather than 70mph.

Have you never heard of the M25 being called the biggest car park in the world? If only it were a joke.

There you go........I thought the discussion was on the reduction of the speed limit on the entire M network to reduce emissions and for (supposed) safety reasons.

Scotland's snarl ups are mostly the M8 and the M74 junctions to and from that. Nine miles into Glasgow in second gear is not my idea of a fun commute. Thankfully it's only when I am tied to a time that I have to endure it. Otherwise the motorways just flow.
All cities have snarl ups, it's just the nature of the beast with the sheer volume of traffic. A little patience goes a very long way.
I thought the M25 was the one around London, not near Yorkshire ?

cheers,
Toddy