500D vs. 1000D material (backpack question)

[Malta Convoy]

Hello to all, new user here. Couldn't find this topic via search so thought it safe to ask.

I have two backpacks made from 1000D material (both Kifaru X-ray model) which, when I purchased, thought it the best value owing to durability of fabric. Both have served me well for years, but I am hiking and climbing far more now than in the past, and these are heavy. I am considering buying the same model but in 500D to cut the weight down, as local users tell me 500D is plenty durable and lighter is better. Prices have shot up since I bought these, of course, and I'm wondering if the weight savings is worth taking the plunge. Will I notice significant weight reduction with a 500D material pack?

Thanks in advance for your insights.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Not sure about the weight. What do your 1000d packs weigh?

I have used and enjoyed a Gen1 Zulu, but dual layer 1000d and yards of MOLLE webbing was heavy for the size.

I have fairly completely transferred to Hill People Gear. I have a G1 Ute in 500d and still find myself wondering what I left in there when the pack is empty!

The Hill People Gear Umlindi is a close match for the X-ray. I have used mine as carry on luggage, and for jungle camping. It is $297 vs the Kifaru at $502. Even with a Recon belt added, you would spend less than on the X-ray….but…if you really want to save weight

DCF vs X-Pac for Ultralight Backpacks: Pros and Cons - SectionHiker.com

Many waterproof and more durable ultralight backpacks are made with Dyneema Composite Fabric (DCF) o

sectionhiker.com

if weight reduction is the only reason to buy, I wouldn’t. There might be a noticeable difference from 1000d, but probably not $500 worth. I bought into HPG because I wanted the modularity without all the webbing.

 

[TLM]

Looks like nowadays the name Cordura just specifies that it is a registered trademark. It does not say the material which can be either polyamide or polyester. 500D or 1000D defines the denier count of the yarn but not anything else, like the aerial weight of the fabric or coating.

So one is mostly left guessing. Everyone just knows that back packs are made of polyamide and plain coated fabric, right?

And when once we weighted more than a few packs the manufacturer given weights were not accurate and I am not speaking about a few grams here.

Having worked in the sporting goods industry I am suspicious of any numbers and most specifications they give out.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

On a small pack like the X-RAY, any weight loss with 500D cordura will be hardly noticible.
All the buckles, zippers & webbing is where the weight is, not the actual fabric but if you want to splash out another $500 + to save less than what ? 100 grams ? then why not.
You say you're hiking & climbing more now, there are far better packs more suited to those activities than Kifaru & which will carry the weight better.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I agree with Lean'n'mean. Zipper, buckle and webbing weighs a lot and there is lots of all that on an X-Ray. The newer generation of light pack fabrics are a lot more durable than their weight suggests.

Another thing. While the X-ray is covered in MOLLE webbing, you would need to attach pouches if you want to carry external water. Attaching pouches and pockets made of 1000D Cordura is anything but a light weight option. If one isn't going to attach such pockets, then carrying all the webbing on the outside fo the pack is a waste and excess weight.

 

[Malta Convoy]

Stated weight is 1.87kg but as stated above, those are the "official" figures. My scale here at home isn't a very good one and doesn't register my packs when empty. Carrying the X-ray around is also quite hot, regardless of outdoor weather. I sweat through any clothing when I carrying it, though admittedly I have not carried any backpack nearly as far or for as long in my lifetime as I do now, so maybe they are all this way (?).

"Everyone just knows that back packs are made of polyamide and plain coated fabric, right?"

I didn't know, but now I do - thanks much for the proper education.

It sounds from the feedback like a change is in order, and the Hill People Gear looks great. Someone told me about them years ago when I lived in Colorado but with moving around and changing jobs, I forgot, and so I appreciate the reminder very much.

Thanks for the informative and helpful replies, everyone - I am nowhere near experienced and so am very grateful for your time and insights.

 

[Paul_B]

There's some very light but tough packs out there. Not issue style but outdoor civilian style. Daysack you should be able to get well below a kilo with a sack that lasts. My backpacking sack has lasted 20 plus years weighing 1.5kg. Simple climbing or alpine sack and strippable to sub kilo while carrying well. As in climbing with it fully loaded for a week.

America has possibly the better lightweight sack market anywhere.

 

[SCOMAN]

Huge fan of Kifaru kit and if you're thinking of moving an X-ray on let me know. I had the same problem with weight of the bag when I started doing SOTA. I was running Kifaru 24" frame and Stryker XL. Very adaptable piece of kit but a tad heavy. In the end I bought an Exped Lightning 45. It's lightweight but isn't as limited in what it can carry. I had tried an Osprey Levity 45 (I think it was a Levity) but you were pretty limited to the amount of weight the lightweight frame would carry. With the Exped it's taken all I can throw at it from spring to autumn. Needing additional thermals during the winter I'm unsure if it'll all fit so that's this weekend's job. Re the X-ray if the price is right I'd be very interested.

 

[Erbswurst]

I recommend to try at first the weight saving at the contents of the rucksack.

Most people carry unnecessary toys around and a lot of equipment is heavier than necessary. Let's say there is in every category a market leader, an item that is very practical, extremely durable and relatively light. And then you have 999 competitors that are less good and often because they are heavier than necessary. But practicality should be kept in mind if you look for lighter equipment. A lot of very light equipment is everything else than practical.

After you got the most practical and most durable equipment that suits your needs and did choose here the lightest versions you can figure out into which rucksack it fits optimal.

 

[Malta Convoy]

Huge fan of Kifaru kit and if you're thinking of moving an X-ray on let me know. I had the same problem with weight of the bag when I started doing SOTA. I was running Kifaru 24" frame and Stryker XL. Very adaptable piece of kit but a tad heavy. In the end I bought an Exped Lightning 45. It's lightweight but isn't as limited in what it can carry. I had tried an Osprey Levity 45 (I think it was a Levity) but you were pretty limited to the amount of weight the lightweight frame would carry. With the Exped it's taken all I can throw at it from spring to autumn. Needing additional thermals during the winter I'm unsure if it'll all fit so that's this weekend's job. Re the X-ray if the price is right I'd be very interested.

I would probably move an X-ray after acquiring something else, assuming I actually do (money being the issue). I will keep your reply bookmarked and reach out to you if and when the time comes to sell, and see if we can work something out.

 

[Erbswurst]

German Mountain Troop Rucksack

34 litres
820 g
Made to German army specifications from 1000 Denier Cordura Nylon
Factory new, made in Germany, cheap as chips.

German Infantry Backpack Cordura

With its 34 liter capacity, is the German army backpack the perfect roomy day pack for hiking or short trips. The large main compartment has an extra pocket with Hook and Loop for the BW sleeping pad (sleeping pad not included). In the side pockets you can store for example water bottles or...

www.asmc.com

The rucksack exists also in two older and heavier cotton versions that you probably can find second hand in the USA and try it out. Or you even can find it used in the Cordura version at your side of the pont.
They were sold used for 30 € also on the US milsurp market.

They are very comfortable if used with a lightweight equipment. For heavier loads your own rucksack is surely the better choice.

The swiss army plastic field bottles with mug fit into the side pouches if you don't want to carry your water on the belt, for example ALICE belt, ALICE canteen pouch, US GI canteen or lighter Nalgene Oasis, US army mug.

The German army folding mat, that was made by Molan or Trecolan in Bremen or the copy by Multimat, Adventure 4 XL, that's still in production fit into the back compartment and give the thing a structure and back padding.

ORC industries US GI poncho, Snugpak Special Forces 1 sleeping bag and Special Forces bivvy bag added and you are good to go. Lightweight, durable, serious qualities. No nonsense.

 

[SCOMAN]

German Mountain Troop Rucksack

34 litres
820 g
Made to German army specifications from 1000 Denier Cordura Nylon
Factory new, made in Germany, cheap as chips.

German Infantry Backpack Cordura

With its 34 liter capacity, is the German army backpack the perfect roomy day pack for hiking or short trips. The large main compartment has an extra pocket with Hook and Loop for the BW sleeping pad (sleeping pad not included). In the side pockets you can store for example water bottles or...

www.asmc.com

The rucksack exists also in two older and heavier cotton versions that you probably can find second hand in the USA and try it out. Or you even can find it used in the Cordura version at your side of the pont.
They were sold used for 30 € also on the US milsurp market.

They are very comfortable if used with a lightweight equipment. For heavier loads your own rucksack is surely the better choice.

The swiss army plastic field bottles with mug fit into the side pouches if you don't want to carry your water on the belt, for example ALICE belt, ALICE canteen pouch, US GI canteen or lighter Nalgene Oasis, US army mug.

The German army folding mat, that was made by Molan or Trecolan in Bremen or the copy by Multimat, Adventure 4 XL, that's still in production fit into the back compartment and give the thing a structure and back padding.

ORC industries US GI poncho, Snugpak Special Forces 1 sleeping bag and Special Forces bivvy bag added and you are good to go. Lightweight, durable, serious qualities. No nonsense.

Are you selling these?? Every opportunity you seem to be singing their praises. Do you have a shed full of them ready to move on?? ;-)

 

[Erbswurst]

No, just three. And I'll keep them.

 

[Malta Convoy]

Bought a Junction Pack from Hill People Gear when they sent me a "back in stock" notice last month. Charged my credit card almost three weeks ago but still no backpack, no reply to email, and non-answers when I call them. No idea what's up apart from perhaps selling things they don't actually *have*, so it looks like I need to find something else.

Anyone have any experience with GoRuck?

 

[C_Claycomb]

Bought a Junction Pack from Hill People Gear when they sent me a "back in stock" notice last month. Charged my credit card almost three weeks ago but still no backpack, no reply to email, and non-answers when I call them. No idea what's up apart from perhaps selling things they don't actually *have*, so it looks like I need to find something else.

Anyone have any experience with GoRuck?

Are you having it shipped in the US or are you having it shipped to Korea?

 

[Erbswurst]

There are always threads about weird shipping times in the US forum. I guess it's somewhere on the way.

 

[Malta Convoy]

Are you having it shipped in the US or are you having it shipped to Korea?

USA. It was supposed to be delivered to the UPS Store, where we've had a business account for several years.

A family member was going to pick it up after it arrives and and then bring it along when she comes here to visit, next month.