4x4's to pay £1800pa road tax...

[Wayne]

The entire 4x4 debate is a red herring. I drive a deli and will continue to do so. I drive a lot for work. I carry kit and clients on and off road. I dont give a damn about it.

I had done the biggest carbon reducing act possible choosen not to have children.

How much carbon is one pampered European going to produce in our already over populated land?

 

[zambezi]

The politicians are either ignorant or devious. I just cant make up my mind which.

I think you need to give them full credit on both fronts.

 

[dave k]

We already have an effective fuel tax co2 calculator - it's called Petrol. If you use more petrol (e.g. your car does less MPG) then you have to buy more Petrol - hence you incur a higher cost.

It would be nice to think that the government is thinking of these from a green or `carbon neutral` standpoint, but until the government deploy's all the revenue generated from `green` taxes into green projects I'll still call this another stealth tax.

I don't mind paying tax for using a car - this is a priviledge not a right for myself. Charging people 1000UKP per year for a carpark place when the cost of the car is 30-40K is nothing.

Along with all the politician's mumbling's, don't kid yourself that these people are looking at this from a purely green point of view. Taxes mean money to them. Look at places like Norway - I believe they kept all the taxes thay they obtained from the oil / gas industry and have placed them into a long-term bank account to assist the country in moving on from oil after it runs out. We need more of this kind of long-term thinking in this country.....

 

[moocher]

the mps bang on about 4x4s etc but they go to house of commons in jags, 4x4s etc.the ones that cycle have a car delivering paperwork to work.janet street porter goes on about 4x4s on greenlanes as she is a rambler then goes to australia business class goes walking through the outback but with a 4x4 following so she only has to carry lunch and a drink,two faced or what ,best way to beat this is a tax exempt 4x4.i own a 1962 landrover swb it has a 3.5 litre v8 with a 3 speed auto.it does about 12 mpg.free tax. insurance is about £200 fully comp with restricted mileage.its sorn at the mo as i had to track down some ignition parts.but its fun when going.

 

[Silverback]

I think you are all being a bit harsh on our poor old government. It seems very few of you are aware of the incredibly high costs associated with running a country so badly

 

[Cawolf]

I think that it's a good idea but only should apply to those who use them in urban environments becasue people like farmers do actually genuinly need them.

 

[Martyn]

I like the idea that Richmond council had recently, that didnt go down very well in the media. When applying for parking permits in the city you have to pay a lot of money for a "gas guzzler" compared to a smart car.

Superb, I thought. I live in the sticks. No chance that there will ever be any kind of parking scheme applied to me here. What I hope that this would mean is that those people living in the city who want to use a large engined vehicle would have to think about it more before they purchased it. Yes, there are some people who would not worry about spending an extra £1000 per year to park, that is just the way the world is.

There is another way of looking at this. Those people who live in the city often do less miles per year. It isnt just the size of the engine, you have to also factor how many miles a year you travel.

If you do 35,000 miles a year in an economical vehicle that does 40mpg, you will be burning 875 gallons of fuel. If I do 5000 miles a year in a 4 litre 4x4 that does 16mpg, I will be burning 312 gallons of fuel a year. Even though I live in the city and drive a smokey old gas guzzler, your carbon footprint is still nearly 3x mine.

Any form of taxation which looks at CO2 emissions cannot look at engine size alone, it must also account for an individuals annual mileage. Mileage is far more significant, regardless of what vehicle you drive, or whether you live in the town or in the country.

In my opinion, we should be given an individual allowance - say 500 gallons a year, each. You can burn it in whatever vehicle you like, but pass 500 gallons and you get yer backside taxed into orbit as a high CO2 emitter.

 

[wingstoo]

There is another way of looking at this. Those people who live in the city often do less miles per year. It isnt just the size of the engine, you have to also factor how many miles a year you travel.

If you do 35,000 miles a year in an economical vehicle that does 40mpg, you will be burning 875 gallons of fuel. If I do 5000 miles a year in a 4 litre 4x4 that does 16mpg, I will be burning 312 gallons of fuel a year. Even though I live in the city and drive a smokey old gas guzzler, your carbon footprint is still nearly 3x mine.

Any form of taxation which looks at CO2 emissions cannot look at engine size alone, it must also account for an individuals annual mileage. Mileage is far more significant, regardless of what vehicle you drive, or whether you live in the town or in the country.

In my opinion, we should be given an individual allowance - say 500 gallons a year, each. You can burn it in whatever vehicle you like, but pass 500 gallons and you get yer backside taxed into orbit as a high CO2 emitter.

Good grief Martyn...It is amazing how owning a 4X4 changes people, I have been having this argument with the "Greenies" on another forum for a couple of months...

My Land rover might be 3.5Ltrs of grunt but it is more environmentally friendly than a 1300 Ford Escort doing the daily grind, mine does less than 150 a month on LPG, (very rarely do I put petrol in) LPG may be a fossil fuel but it is soooooo much cleaner than any other fuel...In fact they could increase my fuel cost by 50% and I will be happy.

LS

 

[Rob]

 

[andyn]

There is another way of looking at this. Those people who live in the city often do less miles per year. It isnt just the size of the engine, you have to also factor how many miles a year you travel.

If you do 35,000 miles a year in an economical vehicle that does 40mpg, you will be burning 875 gallons of fuel. If I do 5000 miles a year in a 4 litre 4x4 that does 16mpg, I will be burning 312 gallons of fuel a year. Even though I live in the city and drive a smokey old gas guzzler, your carbon footprint is still nearly 3x mine.

And just think...if you had an economical car it would be even less.

But yeah your right engine size alone isn't going to be enough for the reason you state.

 

[hardyferret]

Someday,
One of these little grey men who supposedly govern us, might just do a radical thing, and make a decision, which is based on reason. Like abolish road tax and put say another 5p on a litre of fuel.
This would be fair, because
1 those who do large mileages and create pollution would pay proportionally. I run my own firm with high mileage and would accept this

2 Vehicles with high fuel useage (like mine) will pay for this

3 tax dodging will be a thing of the past

4 limited mileage users and economic vehicle users ie pensioners etc will be rewarded

5 the choice is given to the individual on how he/she travels (god forbid freedom of choice under socialism!!!!)

I have always thought road tax ridiculous, and would love to see the above system even though my Land Rover is a tax exempt historic military vehicle (restored)

kind regards Hardyferret

 

[ArkAngel]

Vehicles with emmissions over 250 eh?

My 2.0 focus is in the 205 bracket for which i pay the princely sum of £195 road tax.

Along with it's Super unleaded fuel it has now tuned into a very expensive car to run, as i only do about 8000 a year. SWMBO has a turbo diesel focus so thanks to it's economy we use hers for long journey's.

My next car will be a cheap shopping box no question, my circumstances have changed and i do not need a car that powerful (if i ever did!).

I would hope that the same principle would be applied for C, E and S class Mercs. 5,6 and 7 series BMW's.

4.0litre V8 supercharged Jaguars etc etc.......you get the idea

 

[Nathan Sturgess]

One of the worst things for carbon emissions is cows. Also would global warming not happen even if there were no motorised vehicles. The last ice age didn't end because people were driving cars too much. Did it?

 

[Martyn]

And just think...if you had an economical car it would be even less.

You are right andy, it would - and if I rode a pushbike to work or walked it would be even less.

 

[Chopper]

Has anyone got a 200cc engine for my Landy?

 

[wingstoo]

I did a carbon output test for my landy using this website... http://www.carbonneutral.com/cncalculators/flightcalculator.asp#CarbonNeutral_Flights_CalculatorMy output was, according to the site less than 1 tonne per year.

LS

 

[Minotaur]

Good! About Time Too!

CUE: Fatuous Arguement about how 'Your' 4 x 4 is Essential for pulling Tree Stumps (on one Afternoon a Week) while Ignoring the other Six and a Half Days when you just use it to Commute, or go to Sainso's in.

I agreed, but the people that need targeting are at the start of the chain not the end.

Sort the fuel first!

4x4 are the big problem?

What about lorries? This is yet another 'Green Movement' pointless gesture, that the Government like because it makes them money for doing nothing.

CUE: Fatuous Arguement about how 'Your' 4 x 4 runs on Bio-Diesel or LPG - As if this Somehow Reverses the Pollution effects of Hauling Several Unnesscary Tons of Metal from A to B, Every Time One or Two Humans need to move a few Miles.

What pollution effect from Bio-diesel? It is a renewable energy source, it can also be recycled from a waste product that is not used at the moment. It would help poor farmers all over the world to make money. It would be better for the enviroment because you would not have to transport it all over the place. It works better in older vehciles so it could have an effect in the Third world.

What is the 'Green Movement' doing, lets stop 4x4's.

The oil/car companies must fund them, or be laughing their rear ends off.

Everyone Must Change Their Ways Except You Personally!

Everyone must change their ways. Bang on the money, not 4x4 drivers or motorbikers but everyone. Easiest way to do that, sort the fuel.

Is the Green Movement the most pointless waste of time ever?

What changes have they had on cars?

They are now so advanced that the only way to get them repaired is by a dealership.

What is the effect on the enviroment, none.

What is the effect to the driver? You pay more. You get taxed more, because they want you to stop driving, but have done nothing to sort Public Transport.

What have the Green Movement ever actually acomplished to help the enviroment?

It is actually scary when you think about it, they have done more damage to the enviroment, they should actually campaign against themselves.

You know why they have to put up the tax up again, because exactly what everyone said would happen the last time. It just made the ownership of 4x4 in London, more of a status symbol.

 

[havingagiraffe]

(god forbid freedom of choice under socialism!!!!)

Post Clause IV?

 

[twisted firestarter]

- Scrap car tax
- Increase fuel prices at the pump
- Reduce the duty on Biodiesel
- Try driving a little less each year

The argument that we would need to cover the land with biodiesel crops is fatuous. Rapeseed is the most viable UK crop and it yields 915 lbs. oil/acre. Algae on the other hand is the most efficient biological producer of oil on the planet. Diatom algae is the perfect biodiesel crop which contains approximately 50% oil, although currently the best extraction methods yield 30-40%. Overall It yields 40 times more oil than Rapeseed by area and has the added bonus of 'eating' carbon dioxide too.
There is no competition for land to grow food crops either because it can grow in saline water. It grows quicker in hot climates so may need to be imported but hey,our climate is hotting up anyway! I have heard of one or two people here in the UK who are trialling it in polytunnels on a small scale! This is a real renewable solution waiting to be tapped into but I suspect it will not happen until the powers that be have extracted every last drop of money from our dinofuel reserves.

 

[gregorach]

What have the Green Movement ever actually acomplished to help the enviroment?

You mean aside from banishing the killer London Smog, cleaning up Europe's rivers to the point where fish can actually live in them again, reducing the nitrous and sulphuric acid pollution that was killing our forests, eliminating CFCs, restricting the use of some extemely dangerous pesticides, campaigning for improved fuel efficiency, banning commercial whaling, changing fishing practices to reduce by-catch... I could go on.