New member- bushcraft qualification advice?

[Falstaff]

I have heard this so often from employers.

I deeply regretted the merger of universities with the polytechnics but by the time it happened it was too late. Polys were by that time offering Masters Degrees and Universities were attempting vocational training. They’d eroded this specific differences.

When an employer takes on a graduate, they are adding educated new blood to their organisation. The (appropriately selected and utilised) graduate brings new ideas, current thinking and avenues for opportunities and organisational development.

Training the graduate is the employers job. Polytechnics used to function to support training but alas no more.

Sorry Pattree but that is no longer the case and has not been for many many years.

Unless a specific skillset is required, typically in engineering or Labs, grads are taken on irrespective of degree relevance. Merely to get "people like us", work them to death for as long as possible, and absolutely do not let them bring new ideas in, as it will upset the cosy management set up. They are "educated" only in the social norms and not upsetting the apple cart.
People with real experience and working qualifications/experience scare management to death as they tend to be more proactive, communicate more clearly, and actually know something. Grads very rarely are "educated", they have generally led a sheltered life with limited experience outside their social group/peers.
Hence the continuing pressure on the "Oxbridge" Russell set of Unis about how they select undergrads. They still do not look outside of top boarding grammar schools for potential despite their claims. Good schools (globally) have history with them, and are able to suggest pupils, who then get invited to visit/stay prior to A levels. Lesser working class schools have to be really persistent to even be heard, much less propose a student.

I agree that most Poly's teaching standards and performance were fairly uniformly poor, with rare course/Head exceptions. But at that time, most of the Uni's only selected from a very small sector of the population and were turning out too many entitled duds. They had refused to change or accept new ideas and blood, (see above,) thereby holding open the door to political change.

 

[Broch]

I'm not even going to respond!

 

[TeeDee]

I do feel that there a bit of a potential Eloi and Morlocks-esque type framework regarding the university/non-university divide.

I've met some bright graduates ( in my opinion )
I've met some not-so-bright graduates ( in my opinion )

I've also met some very bright people that have not been to university. ( in my opinion )
I've also met some not-so-bright non-graduates ( in my opinion )


( I'm speaking as a Morlock so the Eloi can disregard my comments. )

 

[Tengu]

Does the Royal Agricultural University count as Oxbridge? They have their own pack.

Mind you its beagles rather than foxhounds so maybe lowbrow.

 

[Toddy]

I know an awful lot of utterly cack handed graduates, and an awful lot of incredibly capable tradesmen.....half my family were Doctors, half were joiners or engineers....I reckoned that some mend bodies, some fix wood and others deal with metal (well, these days a lot of it's electronics) I'm the oddball archaeologist though I have a cousin who's a theatrical set designer, and we don't talk much about the one who's a domestic science teacher......she thinks we're boring ...but by heavens A. can make a good meal out of anything

Truthfully I know beyond a shadow of any doubt that people are multi skilled, that even those I poke fun at are knowledgeable....would I trust them to gather ransoms instead of lily of the valley ? well, maaaaybe, but I'd be checking carefully before I made dinner.

 

[Pattree]

If you are going to run courses in anything please learn to teach first.

 

[Falstaff]

I'm not even going to respond!

No need. You have already explained how you were one of the better employers who understood the different skillsets and were not adverse to matching them to the appropriate jobs.

Unfortunately, I found out the hard way that most would not, and I needed a degree.
I was fortunate and found a degree course at one of those poorly performing Polytechnics. They accepted me and also exempted me from the first year in view of my construction qualifications and experience. I came out clutching my bit of paper with not much extra knowledge and no extra skills.
I then instantly became acceptable to employers, who then gave me the interviews they had previously declined. I got a junior level job with a national blue chip Co. doing exactly what I had been doing previously for 6 years, on nearly double the money. (Despite their disbelief that this was possible in other industries). I then spent the next 13 years slowly rising while quietly listening to the hubris, bias and ignorance I referred to above.

 

[Falstaff]

Does the Royal Agricultural University count as Oxbridge? They have their own pack.

Mind you its beagles rather than foxhounds so maybe lowbrow.

Nope, sorry it's not one of the 24 Russell Group uni's. (Originally only 19 Uni's).

Definitely low brow, "My Dear, really. Running ?.. after the hounds??
(Cue laughing smiley rolling around, wearing a riding hat)

 

[Tengu]

I tried. Oh I tried to get to a fancy Uni.

Instead I got beagles.

But! The buildings are listed! Does that count for anything?

And my Tutors got a Wiki page as long as your arm.

 

[Greg]

This was the next thing I was going to point out. I’m not sure what qualifies an individual to build a course for NCFE or what hoops you’d need to jump though etc to become a course provider. But perhaps this is something you could do and build your own courses.

This was the next thing I was going to point out. I’m not sure what qualifies an individual to build a course for NCFE or what hoops you’d need to jump though etc to become a course provider. But perhaps this is something you could do and build your own courses?

I run courses..no need for worthless "qualifications"

 

[Greg]

I don't see why there cannot exist both recognised and regulated bodies and other un-recognised courses training/experience companies and individuals, as there are in some other industries.

Examples of this are HETAS, GasSafe, and some manufacturing trade associations. There may be several regulated membership bodies potentially competing for members with each other in the same business marketplace.

As distinct from say, CORGI, Institute of Chimney Sweeps (ICS), and others which are un-regulated membership trade associations, with no legally recognised standing or qualification.

Any form of bushcraft business who do not wish to join a legally recognised body can still run their own business, and might join an unrecognised/unregulated say, trade association.
Any suggested qualification, certificate etc. issued by the unregulated business or trade association will not have any legal recognition.

I do understand why some would not accept Greg's experience etc as sufficient. Of their nature, they are very risk averse for fear of losing their own regulated and recognised standing.
If they have no experience or research relating to alternative knowledge routes then they cannot judge their validity and therefore are obliged to say no. This of course calls into question their own skill sets and competence, but could always be honest and say "We don't do "Arctic" not part of our skillset".

Greg - As a risk example, from my own experience and lack of inside knowledge. on say, Arctic training back in your days, did some Ruperts from REME sometimes get an easy pass for political expediency ?
Who might then on discharge potentially claim all sorts of skills and experience they never had in order to build a business or position?
I've certainly known and worked with some of those, usually getting/given management positions and not being competent without a good NCO type to support them. They are a world away from those who've been on the pointy end of things.

The way of the world unfortunately.