Exactly the analogy I used when trying to explain the concept of preparedness to a lad at work -who is now convinced I'm a survivalist nut.
Bug out bags
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Exactly the analogy I used when trying to explain the concept of preparedness to a lad at work -who is now convinced I'm a survivalist nut.
To quote Doug Ritter on the equipped to survive website -
"Survival preparation is always about risk management. Everyone's assessment of any particular risk varies, as does their preparations. It's almost always location specific to one degree or another"
"Survival preparation is always about risk management. Everyone's assessment of any particular risk varies, as does their preparations. It's almost always location specific to one degree or another"
BOB is important. but fire drills more so. especially if you live in a large house or a block of flats
Got to be honest, I'd always thought BOBs were a bit OTT.
More Survivalist than Bushcrafter (I won't use the acronym with the Ts and the K) but this thread has got me thinking.
Particularly this post:
I'm coming round. Keep talking
More Survivalist than Bushcrafter (I won't use the acronym with the Ts and the K) but this thread has got me thinking.
Particularly this post:
I'm coming round. Keep talking
Humblebumble
The guy who wrote the ListeningToKatrina blog that Chinkapin posted on page 1 discussed that kind of thing.
The big mistake a lot of people make is seeing the BOB as the answer. it's not - it's part of the answer though.
Granted, a BOB is no good if you're in such a blind panic that you burn in a house fire... but if your fire drill doesn't involve grabbing the bag under/near your bed, why not?
A BOB could just be insurance documents, photographic proof of belongings (all on a data stick), proof of ID (birth certs and the likes) and some clothes.
No need to waste time trying grab clothes and a few documents on the way out (you probably won't have time to do either if there's a fire). Grab the bag, grab the kids (assuming there are any) and get out starkers - once outside get the spare clothes out of the BOB and get dressed in the street, alive and well. All safe in the knowledge that you can prove your insurance, that you had the TV the insurance doesn't want to pay for and so on.
I think the right way to see a BOB, at very least, is a container for a few essentials and assuming you won't ever get back into the house (which is what you should be assuming if preparing for a house fire) the things you'll need to get your life back on track and also whatever you can't replace if you're leaving a house/flat that's going to burn completely to the ground. (I'm thinking about digital copies of photographs and the likes here - maybe even the originals in a folder/album of some sort - display copies in frames).
Prawnster
It sounds a bit like you're already seeing the point.
I think of a BOB, first and foremost as one of two things... (In fact, I'm working towards keeping two separate bags, one for each)
1> Grab-and-go bag.
"Let's go camping/to grandma's/to Paris for the weekend."
No need to mess around looking for what you need - it's all in a bag ready to go. No missed opportunities for not being ready.
That's where I started after taking several last-minute trips that were delayed by not knowing where the things I needed were. That lead onto...
2> An actual Bug-Out-Bag.
In this case it's smoke alarm goes off and I don't want to stop for anything - I'm getting out NOW.
It's got clothes I'll need to put on once I'm out (I'm not stopping for clothes).
Essentially it's "if the house burns to the ground and I've got one bag to carry things I absolutely don't want to/can't do with out - what's going in?"
You've got no chance, after the fact, to go back in and get your passport, birth certificate, medical stuff, car keys, money, photos of dearly departed and so on - might as well have them all ready to go at a moment's notice, and since there's a chance you're going out a window, not down the stairs, it needs to be in the bedroom with you.
Once you've got that level of preparation for something far more likely to happen than major natural disasters (and probably more likely to kill you) - you're pretty much prepared for anything. (Not that those anythings are all that likely, but it doesn't hurt to be ready.)
I'm sure Wolfie can be a bit more succinct than that - but the "why" of preparedness (in the non-nutjob use of the word) is pretty complicated.
Maybe "If there's a fire I don't want the kids to burn or to be homeless/jobless/carless/mementoless afterwards." (Probably a couple of made up words in there).
The guy who wrote the ListeningToKatrina blog that Chinkapin posted on page 1 discussed that kind of thing.
The big mistake a lot of people make is seeing the BOB as the answer. it's not - it's part of the answer though.
Granted, a BOB is no good if you're in such a blind panic that you burn in a house fire... but if your fire drill doesn't involve grabbing the bag under/near your bed, why not?
A BOB could just be insurance documents, photographic proof of belongings (all on a data stick), proof of ID (birth certs and the likes) and some clothes.
No need to waste time trying grab clothes and a few documents on the way out (you probably won't have time to do either if there's a fire). Grab the bag, grab the kids (assuming there are any) and get out starkers - once outside get the spare clothes out of the BOB and get dressed in the street, alive and well. All safe in the knowledge that you can prove your insurance, that you had the TV the insurance doesn't want to pay for and so on.
I think the right way to see a BOB, at very least, is a container for a few essentials and assuming you won't ever get back into the house (which is what you should be assuming if preparing for a house fire) the things you'll need to get your life back on track and also whatever you can't replace if you're leaving a house/flat that's going to burn completely to the ground. (I'm thinking about digital copies of photographs and the likes here - maybe even the originals in a folder/album of some sort - display copies in frames).
Prawnster
It sounds a bit like you're already seeing the point.
I think of a BOB, first and foremost as one of two things... (In fact, I'm working towards keeping two separate bags, one for each)
1> Grab-and-go bag.
"Let's go camping/to grandma's/to Paris for the weekend."
No need to mess around looking for what you need - it's all in a bag ready to go. No missed opportunities for not being ready.
That's where I started after taking several last-minute trips that were delayed by not knowing where the things I needed were. That lead onto...
2> An actual Bug-Out-Bag.
In this case it's smoke alarm goes off and I don't want to stop for anything - I'm getting out NOW.
It's got clothes I'll need to put on once I'm out (I'm not stopping for clothes).
Essentially it's "if the house burns to the ground and I've got one bag to carry things I absolutely don't want to/can't do with out - what's going in?"
You've got no chance, after the fact, to go back in and get your passport, birth certificate, medical stuff, car keys, money, photos of dearly departed and so on - might as well have them all ready to go at a moment's notice, and since there's a chance you're going out a window, not down the stairs, it needs to be in the bedroom with you.
Once you've got that level of preparation for something far more likely to happen than major natural disasters (and probably more likely to kill you) - you're pretty much prepared for anything. (Not that those anythings are all that likely, but it doesn't hurt to be ready.)
I'm sure Wolfie can be a bit more succinct than that - but the "why" of preparedness (in the non-nutjob use of the word) is pretty complicated.
Maybe "If there's a fire I don't want the kids to burn or to be homeless/jobless/carless/mementoless afterwards." (Probably a couple of made up words in there).
I'm coming round. Keep talking
I'd say drop the name "bug out bag" and it will seem less,,, you know, doom&gloom.
I really agree with what has been said about personal documents and money. Everything else can be improvised to some extent, but not those little scraps of paper that "prove" you exist.
You may not have to worry about catastrophic forest fires but your run of the mill house fire can happen anywhere.
Potable water is something most people don't give alot of thought to, turn on a tap and it's there. A very serious problem during hurricane Katrina, water water everywhere and not a drop to drink. Events of all types would suggest water is a priority. You can live for days without water but most people start to fade pretty quickly after just a few hours and stop thinking cleary shortly thereafter. Imagine your worst hangover, getting worse by the hour,,,,
Not a bad idea really.
"A rose by any other name" and all that.
And don't forget, you see forest fires coming from a distance, there's warning.
In a normal house fire you've got about 60 seconds to react and save yourself, your family, and the things you really need to have, any longer and you've got a good chance of losing one or more of them.
House fire is probably the worst thing to have to react to. Even tornadoes, as destructive as they are, have a "season" of sorts.
Interesting, that BigShot mentioned tornadoes. That was the motivation for my first BOB. I live in what is referred to here in the U. S. as "tornado alley." We have had some really large tornadoes very near our community. We do not have a tornado shelter in our house and consequently have to leave and go elsewhere, if the tornado sirens sound. When that happens you do not know if you are going to see your house or your belongings again.
Statistics are on my side but every year there are those that lose their homes. Every member of our household has a bag that contains 2 changes of clothes, a waterproof jacket, medicines, papers, etc. Each of us has everything in a small duffle bag.
It does not contain everything we need, but it will sure beat standing outside in our underwear shivering in the rain.
Statistics are on my side but every year there are those that lose their homes. Every member of our household has a bag that contains 2 changes of clothes, a waterproof jacket, medicines, papers, etc. Each of us has everything in a small duffle bag.
It does not contain everything we need, but it will sure beat standing outside in our underwear shivering in the rain.
I put together my BOB's with the view of " If i had to leave the house (for whatever reason) what items would make hings more comfortable / less stressful / safer for my family?" Even though I have family living nearby it may not be possible to reach them in an emergency (flooded /blocked roads ).
Think of all the pictures you see of people sitting in communtiy centres and sports halls with nothing but their PJ's and dressing gowns hoping that someone will give them a bed and some food. My packs therefore include blankets, food, water, hygeine items (towel, hand gel, toilet paper, toothpaste and brush), spare clothes, map of the local area, radio, torch, emergency poncho, books hotpacks and some other useful items and documents.
I also have additional supplies in the car for "What would I need if I had to stay overnight in the car?"
As you can see they are in no way a traditional survival pack as that is not their purpose.If I am travelling in foreign countries / wild country then I would put together a specific survival pack for that region.
Think of all the pictures you see of people sitting in communtiy centres and sports halls with nothing but their PJ's and dressing gowns hoping that someone will give them a bed and some food. My packs therefore include blankets, food, water, hygeine items (towel, hand gel, toilet paper, toothpaste and brush), spare clothes, map of the local area, radio, torch, emergency poncho, books hotpacks and some other useful items and documents.
I also have additional supplies in the car for "What would I need if I had to stay overnight in the car?"
As you can see they are in no way a traditional survival pack as that is not their purpose.If I am travelling in foreign countries / wild country then I would put together a specific survival pack for that region.
Like a few others on here, my Land Rover has loads of 'essential' kit in it all the time - axe, stove, torch, knife etc. etc. But, more importantly I keep (and maintain) a variety of kit lists. I know I can pull together everything on any of the lists in an hour and be on the road.
It's highly unlikely (where I live) that any situation would occur where I didn't have at least an hour's notice of needing to get my kit together and, in my oppinion, far batter to stay calm and make sure I have every thing (including cash, credit card, phone and laptop) than to rush off and leave important gear behind.
Be prepared by all means - but in the mind not in a load of little bags.
It's highly unlikely (where I live) that any situation would occur where I didn't have at least an hour's notice of needing to get my kit together and, in my oppinion, far batter to stay calm and make sure I have every thing (including cash, credit card, phone and laptop) than to rush off and leave important gear behind.
Be prepared by all means - but in the mind not in a load of little bags.
I thought you had to take a TV set. Whenever I see post disaster footage theres always someone pushing a TV in a shopping trolley down the road fast. ;-)
As much as anything a bob bag will help me keep my stuff organised. All the bits and bobs I like to keep handy like knives, sharpeners, torches, cord etc are strewn about the house in various drawers and cupboards. A little utility bag might be an idea.
Anyone got one of these?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USMC-Army-Mol...dsQ5fSportsQ5fClothingQ5fLEQQsalenotsupported
Wondering how they compare to the snugpak version sizewise.
Anyone got one of these?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USMC-Army-Mol...dsQ5fSportsQ5fClothingQ5fLEQQsalenotsupported
Wondering how they compare to the snugpak version sizewise.
I've got one that is identical to this (ebay via HK though). Seems fine to me and pretty robust. Can't comment on the snugpak product, Wasn't expecting much at that sort of price so was delighted.
Prawnster.
Looks a lot like the kind of on-body preparedness kit bag. You know, the thing you carry in case the zombies come while you're down the shops or on public transport.
Nice looking bag though.
Deeps.
You're not far off.
You're meant to PACK many things... You're meant to TAKE a television. See the difference?
Wolfie.
The "sitting in community centres and sports halls" bit is one thing I'd like to avoid as far as possible.
In fact, the Listening to Katrina blog has a fair bit to say on that subject. I seem to remeber he called it the "government sponsored vacation" or words to that effect. Basically it's the one thing (apart from death) you really don't want to get involved with.
Something in your BOB that I agree with, and many don't, is the hygeine stuff. I've seen some say it's not essential so it doesn't go in, but I couldn't disagree more. I feel absolutely vile if I can't at least clean my teeth, so at very least a toothbrush is one of the first things to pack. I'm all for maintaining personal standards when out of home - whether running from the zombies or on a "let's just go" adventure.
Looks a lot like the kind of on-body preparedness kit bag. You know, the thing you carry in case the zombies come while you're down the shops or on public transport.
Nice looking bag though.
Deeps.
You're not far off.
You're meant to PACK many things... You're meant to TAKE a television. See the difference?
Wolfie.
The "sitting in community centres and sports halls" bit is one thing I'd like to avoid as far as possible.
In fact, the Listening to Katrina blog has a fair bit to say on that subject. I seem to remeber he called it the "government sponsored vacation" or words to that effect. Basically it's the one thing (apart from death) you really don't want to get involved with.
Something in your BOB that I agree with, and many don't, is the hygeine stuff. I've seen some say it's not essential so it doesn't go in, but I couldn't disagree more. I feel absolutely vile if I can't at least clean my teeth, so at very least a toothbrush is one of the first things to pack. I'm all for maintaining personal standards when out of home - whether running from the zombies or on a "let's just go" adventure.
Agree with you Big Shot about avoiding the community centres and sports halls whenever possible . Most people organised enough to get a BOB together will probably be prepaared enough to avoid them - but you never know.
I think the hygeine items are very important for a number of reasons. Firstly comfort and a sense of normality, if not me but for the kids. The routine of cleaning teeth before bed etc. will help things to be a bit like normal. Even a simple wash with a flannel / wet wipes can help raise morale no end. Had my water supply switched off for a few days - been there done that.
Also think of the state of public toilets or those at a public event eg summer festivals. :yikes: These items are exactly the things that are in short supply at the exact moment when they are needed the most.
. Most people organised enough to get a BOB together will probably be prepaared enough to avoid them - but you never know. I think the hygeine items are very important for a number of reasons. Firstly comfort and a sense of normality, if not me but for the kids. The routine of cleaning teeth before bed etc. will help things to be a bit like normal. Even a simple wash with a flannel / wet wipes can help raise morale no end. Had my water supply switched off for a few days - been there done that.
Also think of the state of public toilets or those at a public event eg summer festivals. :yikes: These items are exactly the things that are in short supply at the exact moment when they are needed the most.
Lot of stuff to read, looks interesting.
A lot of interesting stuff come out from Katrina.
The big surprise for a lot of people who considered themselves prepared, was they prepared to stay, and suddenly had to go. Or they prepared for themselves, and maybe a few other people, and suddenly found their preparedness was just enough, or to small.
I know a lot of people who were in and around the floods who now try to keep a supply of water on hand, because that was the big nightmare for them during it.
It is worth finding out if there are things that can go wrong. Even if they say it will never happen part of the problem is it often does.
There is a Preparedness blog written by someone who was into preparedness, and trained people in it. He was not so much Survival, but in living though the problem, and it was very interesting to read of the problems he had after Katrina. Trying to find the link, Paul something.
The point I have been trying to make is that you should carry what works for you. Simply making sure you have water in a city can be very useful. Look at the underground power cut? Firelighting kit no good, but a bootle of water, very useful.
I think it is the image thing again. We are forever doomed to be Boy Scouts, Rambo, or a Survivalist Nutcase.
I like the difference between a survival kit, and a possibilites bag. I carry a bag that has a lot of options. I basically have three set ups, a basic which goes everywhere with me, a small ruc for day walking, and a ruc that acts as BOB which is for at least 72 hours.
I have a simple answer to that one, taste the difference. Trying to grow wild ones as well this year, they taste even better apprently.
If you think someone, or something, or events are conspiring against you and there is no evidence to support this notion, then you are paranoid.
But, did you ever notice that If someone, or something, or events, are in fact, conspiring against you, and you are completely unaware of it, we have no psychiatric term for that?
"Stupid," just does not have the same serious medical ring to it that "paranoid" does. LOL
But, did you ever notice that If someone, or something, or events, are in fact, conspiring against you, and you are completely unaware of it, we have no psychiatric term for that?
"Stupid," just does not have the same serious medical ring to it that "paranoid" does. LOL
It seems to me that a lot of people are quick to slap the 'paranoid' label onto anyone that prepares for an eventuality they -- due to improbability or willful burying of their head in the sand -- aren't concerned about. Time and time again we've been caught out by situations both naturally occurring and anthropogenic. So far we've been lucky and even the largest of disasters in recent history have killed only a small proportion of the world's population. I wonder though what would have happened if European Jews had owned firearms during the 1940s, if aeroplane cockpit doors were always locked before 11/9/2001, if people who lived on flood planes kept a few sandbags handy, if every home had a mains-powered smoke alarm with battery backup, if everyone kept a fire extinguisher in their car...
Hmmmm...
Watching the ball bat too and fro across the net, I have to say that I'm thinking that:
a. The vast, vast, vast majority of us do not need a 'real' BoB.
b. It is a good idea to have a bag in the boot of the car with a few basic essentials (more later)
c. Some of us are going a little over the top...but WTH, eh?
OK, let's put this in context. If we live in an area where earthquakes, bushfires, flooding, etc, are likely, a BoB with spare cash, cards, food, key documents, spare mobile phone and car keys may well be a lifesaver. These are real 'BoBs' but are probably known under different names by people that really need them.
If we have a bag by the back door that we take out when we go off for a walk to the woods...that, alas, is not a BoB.
In my experience - and that is recent military experience - a real, military BoB (and the name 'Bug-out Bag' has its roots in the military, doncha' know) is full of ammunition, frag and smokes, FFDs, and is by a convenient building door or in the footwell of your vehicle. It may also contain a few spare radio batteries and report cards, aide memoires, etc.
It does seem eminently sensible to me, following the posts above, to have a first aid kit, blanket, lighter, food, water, jacket, hat, etc, in a bag in the boot of the car. You are far more likely to come across a situation in your car where you may be stranded for the night or be involved in an accident.
I am loving this thread, so please don't get me wrong over this because I am a kit monster and genuinely want to know what items other people believe are important and useful. However, I think most of us are discussing what are actually more like 'large possibles bags' than proper BoBs.
Flame away...
Watching the ball bat too and fro across the net, I have to say that I'm thinking that:
a. The vast, vast, vast majority of us do not need a 'real' BoB.
b. It is a good idea to have a bag in the boot of the car with a few basic essentials (more later)
c. Some of us are going a little over the top...but WTH, eh?
OK, let's put this in context. If we live in an area where earthquakes, bushfires, flooding, etc, are likely, a BoB with spare cash, cards, food, key documents, spare mobile phone and car keys may well be a lifesaver. These are real 'BoBs' but are probably known under different names by people that really need them.
If we have a bag by the back door that we take out when we go off for a walk to the woods...that, alas, is not a BoB.
In my experience - and that is recent military experience - a real, military BoB (and the name 'Bug-out Bag' has its roots in the military, doncha' know) is full of ammunition, frag and smokes, FFDs, and is by a convenient building door or in the footwell of your vehicle. It may also contain a few spare radio batteries and report cards, aide memoires, etc.
It does seem eminently sensible to me, following the posts above, to have a first aid kit, blanket, lighter, food, water, jacket, hat, etc, in a bag in the boot of the car. You are far more likely to come across a situation in your car where you may be stranded for the night or be involved in an accident.
I am loving this thread, so please don't get me wrong over this because I am a kit monster and genuinely want to know what items other people believe are important and useful. However, I think most of us are discussing what are actually more like 'large possibles bags' than proper BoBs.
Flame away...
