clean and shiney or black?

[g4ghb]

Watching Victorian Farm with swmbo and my youngest this evening Ruth was cleaning her pots and pans with vinegar and brick dust.

'lovely and shiny' she says to which I quipped 'but black is a better absorber of heat'

This I thought was the end of the end of the discussion however swmbo came back with 'but does a layer of soot act as an insulator?'

Well does it? - and thus my theory and reasoning for not scrubbing pans crumble like the bricks

 

[Prodigal Son]

Lalalalalala!!! I can't hear you!!
Black is definately best! (For my personal stuff that is!) I do wash the outside to get the loose soot off but don't worry too much about fire blackening, it's character!

My scouts better be able to use theirs as a mirror!

 

[g4ghb]

I agree - It's just I come form a scientific background so just NEED to know the facts

BTW I'm not a meany and insist on mirror finishes from my scouts, even though I have to confess as a Scout even though were were told to just clean the top inch I would clean the whole thing (to a mirror of course) - and it has nothing to do wit the fact I would rather brillo a billy then play football!

 

[Wayland]

The energy characteristics of black verses shiny could be debated for days, but I know it's more energy efficient not to spend ages polishing a billy when a quick wipe over will do the job.

 

[g4ghb]

The energy characteristics of black verses shiny could be debated for days, but I know it's more energy efficient not to spend ages polishing a billy when a quick wipe over will do the job.

Very true! - but hey a good debate is fun (and far more productive than politics )

 

[Prodigal Son]

Or liberally cover the outside with washing up liquid before it goes anywhere near the fire!!

 

[Wayland]

Who carries washing up liquid into the wild?

Nasty stuff.

I use ash if I really need to.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

you have to remember the setting, a Victorian house, they still had pride in their homes even if everything got filthy everyday.

the benefits of having clean cookware to us today are fairly obvious (hygiene), in those days it seems if anything were left too long it would become difficult to clean or fix so i guess it was a way of keeping on top of the mountain of daily chores.

but as has already been said:

for any cooking black will absorb heat quicker than shiney!

all of my Bushcraft cookware is black(non stick) or has a coat of heat resistant black paint including the Mug, lid, stove, and meths burner, I say if black makes it hotter + more efficient the more the merrier!

if you keep it hot germs won't survive, i wash it all at home.

 

[spamel]

Carbon conducts electricity reasonably well, so why not heat?

I saw a few locals in Oman repairing truck battery terminals and part of their tool kit was the carbon core from a D cell battery. This was held in a pair of uninsulated pliers, which in turn was connected to one heavy duty jump cable. The other end of the jump cable was connected to a decent truck battery and the other cable also came off the decent truck battery. A hammer head had been lathed to create a tapering hole in the face and was set on top of where the old damaged terminal was and connected to the free end of the second cable. The carbon core was shorted out on the hammer face and glowed red hot, then lead balancing weights were dropped in to the hammer face and probed with the red hot carbon core that continued to short and generate more than enough heat to melt the lead weights. Once the hammer face was filled it was left to cool and then twisted off to leave a rough but ready terminal post on the old battery. A quick blitz with a special terminal polishing tool on a hand cranked drill and the terminal was as good as new!

leave the muck on. Scrape big bits off and give it a good clean inside, but sod messing about with scourers and washing up liquid. I look after my kit, but I'm certainly not going to spend valuable time polishing stuff up unless it really needs it!

 

[stevec]

i suppose it depends on how thick the layer of carbon is. the dixi's we use when i go on BB camp have a layer of carbon about 5mm thick, if you give it a wack with a metal hook it falls off. good enough for us in anycase!

steve

 

[Shewie]

I tried the washing up liquid on the outside of the pans once but then I'd just end up with it all over my food etc after handling them.

I just give mine a wipe on grass or bracken and give them a proper wash when I get home. I don't bother scrubbing them though just enough to remove the loose soot.

 

[Prodigal Son]

Yeh, washing up liquid is awful stuff, that's why I don't use it either.
But my billies don't have to look like they did when I started! Scout's on the other hand do have to return them as borrowed. They are communal equipment used by all sections so have to last

It does make it easier to clean but like you say Rich, it gets everywhere. Tea made with bubbly water is not the best I have ever tasted

 

[Eric_Methven]

Washing up liquid???? That's a bit posh innit?
Bar soap is what you want. Warm the pan a bit (before you set off on your trip) and rub bar soap lightly over the bottom and half way up the sides. The heat will help the soap to adhere to the pan. Then use as normal at camp. All the soap will do is help make it easier to clean the black off when you get home. Bags to keep your pots in is a definite advantage though.

I don't see the need to have cookware bright and shiny though, unless you are saving on the weight of a shaving mirror and using the pan instead, or unless you are going to return the pan to the shop for a refund after your trip.

Eric

 

[gregorach]

Black absorbs radiant heat better, but unless you're cooking on a halogen hob (or in vacuum of space), radiant heat isn't the biggest component. Conduction and convection are far more important for getting heat to the outside of your pot, and conduction is the key factor for getting heat though your pot to the stuff inside. So, let's look at figures for thermal conductivity, and see what we find...

Some general figures for comparison are given here:

Aluminium: 237 W/m K
Plain steel: 45-65 W/m K
Stainless Steel: 14 W/m K
Titanium: 21.9 W/m K

(All at ~300 K, except the steels which are at 273 K)

However, carbon comes in lots of forms... From the previous link we get anything from 5.7 W/m K to 1950 W/m K for different forms of graphite and 895 W/m K for diamond, but for sooty pans, I think we're really dealing with what's called "carbon black". This paper gives the thermal conductivity of carbon black as 266 W/m K at 315 K (42 C), rising to 716 W/m K at 555 K (282 C). So it seems that carbon black is a better thermal conductor than any of the materials your pans are likely to be made of, so it's going to be completely irrelevant, especially since it's going to be in a very thin layer, over a much thicker sheet of metal.

Im summary, I don't believe it makes a blind bit of difference.

 

[BigShot]

Dunc - a wonderful summary.
It's always nice to see science being so firmly grounded!

 

[tjwuk]

Black and carbon crusty, best all round. Makes you luck more like a hardened bushcrafter to all those wannabee campers!

 

[superc0ntra]

I think Dunc closed the subject fairly well. My stuff looks used, as in fairly black

 

[Sainty]

My wife gets my pots nice and shiny and I'm not complaining.

Martin

 

[Colin.W]

surely the layer of carbon on the outside of the pan would slow down the rate of heat loss keeping food hot longer when removed from the heat source, also it would have a similar effect as the thick bottomed pans to spread the heat more evenly over the bottom of the pan to reduce burning from hot spots

 

[tjwuk]

surely the layer of carbon on the outside of the pan would slow down the rate of heat loss keeping food hot longer when removed from the heat source, also it would have a similar effect as the thick bottomed pans to spread the heat more evenly over the bottom of the pan to reduce burning from hot spots

The heat loss isn't really a problem if you use titanium. Only problem with the pot I use is the extra weight gained by the layer of carbon. Hence I did scrape some of it off, now its lightweight again. lol