Setting Up A Tarp

[Shewie]

Ach - quick, easy and gives you more time to stuff your face and slurp the vino!

Ahh I see. that's okay then

 

[Minotaur]

I remember years ago when I first started camping and outdoor living, because the rope and cordage we had was mainly sisal or hemp we had to tie our guy ropes with a knot similar to half of a sheepshank (I never did learn the name of the knot) so we could quickly release them if the wet weather shrank the ropes. Hooray for man made fibres

Lol. What I think of as the truckers hitch is like that.

May I correct a statement made by Asa Samuel, On no account should you use a reef knot for joining two ropes as the knot is unstable and can also capsize and fail.

Love the website. Is that a steel wire turks head at the bottom of the ropework page? If so, very nice. Any plans to sell that poly rope, maybe a little thicker, or some hemp. How are you finishing off the eye splices(very nice by the way)?

Never going to happen. If you tie a reef knot right, they do not fail. They get tighter, but should only be used as the straight knot in the same thickness materials. The only way to get a reef to fail, is to tie it wrong, not let it get tight before you let go, or pull one of the free ends turning it into a larks head.

That said, I belive custom and practice is to tie a reef in the same rope. It does make a brillant joiner, if you use loops, so two bowlines, or any loops.

Said this before, a lot of the older knots have bad reps because of modern materials. Also it is basically not using them for their purpose, or how they are designed to work. This is why I use the constrictor over the clove hitch, because when building a shelter in the cold and wet, I do not want to deal with its issues. Demos of lashings in a warm place are different.

The correct knot to join two ropes together is a Sheet bend.

Of different thickness. Really good knots, but they do not like a lot of modern materials. Hence the fishermans bend, and knots like it.

 

[Asa Samuel]

Finally, someone backs me up

 

[John Fenna]

This is why I use the constrictor over the clove hitch, because when building a shelter in the cold and wet, I do not want to deal with its issues.

.

Is that not the same argument for using a sheetbend rather than a (possiblely) failure prone reef knot for your tarpology?

Use the most apropriate knot for the circumstances and you have fewer "issues" to deal with.....

 

[Minotaur]

Is that not the same argument for using a sheetbend rather than a (possiblely) failure prone reef knot for your tarpology?

Use the most apropriate knot for the circumstances and you have fewer "issues" to deal with.....

No, my statement was to swap out one knot that does the same job. A reef knot, and sheet bend do not do the same job. A reef knot can be used to join ropes but only of the same thickness, which is why it works best for the same rope. A sheet bend's job is to join ropes together, and it works best joining different thicknesses. They were used within feet of each other, if one could replace the other they would have.

My argument, if I have one, is simply this, unless you want to learn lots of knots that do the same job, learn ones that work regardless of the material, and circumstance. Basically to tie a tarp up you need to be able to make a loop, and a half hitch. Anything after that is personal preferance.

 

[al21]

I was taught that a reef knot should be tied where it would lie flat against something. It's a very good knot like that, but it can fail under lots of strain. I'm sure most of us remember using it with triangular bandages to form slings. Apparently the Ancient Greeks believed the reef knot had medicinal properties which is another reason it is used like this.

Like Minotaur, I was taught that a sheet bend was to join two ropes of unequal thickness. A good family of knots, but as said already, suffers when used with modern ropes. I've had them fail under load using a truckers hitch. So I'm going to have to disagree with K.NYPH and John.

To join two ropes together my Grandfather would have said use a Carrick Bend, but I prefer a Zeppelin/Hunters Bend for quick easy dependable and easy to undo when I've finished.

To be honest, much can be achieved with a bowline and half hitches for most jobs. Not perhaps elegant, but will get the job done.

 

[al21]

My argument, if I have one, is simply this, unless you want to learn lots of knots that do the same job, learn ones that work regardless of the material, and circumstance. Basically to tie a tarp up you need to be able to make a loop, and a half hitch. Anything after that is personal preferance.

Beat me to it!

 

[scrogger]

I do knot believe this!! (get it) ............................sorry

an easy solution is.... a wild country ultra voyager or any sort of tent!!

Back to the question in hand with my new DD hammock and Tarp I have practised with
evenk hitch and truckers hitch and had a dabble with a power cynch but i have not slept in it yet I am hoping I go with a few tree dwellers on my first outing to uses it then I can se how its done. I used Prussiks and little alpkit biners to tension the tarp on the ridge line.

 

[walkaboutman]

Not being a great knot user, mainly through being lazy in that part i use lots of my climbing slings to get along...worked so far....

 

[K.NYPH]

You are absolutly correct ,Re different size of rope, I was just trying to teach good practice in a simple way as many books have misinformed people over the years.
I'm sorry to have created such a stir I was only trying to pass on my knowledge to help .If you do use either a sheet bend or a reef knot make sure you tie it the correct way as there are a number of ways with each knot that are less secure than the correct way.

 

[Peter_t]

i use;

timber hitch for the first end of the ridgeline

cow hitch or the slippery vertion for the other end

blakes hitch so keep the tarp taught on the ridge

taughtline hitch for the guy lines (not the same hitch ray uses which some call a taughtline)

double sheet bends to attach the guys and the blakes hitch cords to the webbing loops on the tarp

works for me
pete

 

[Minotaur]

You are absolutly correct ,Re different size of rope, I was just trying to teach good practice in a simple way as many books have misinformed people over the years.
I'm sorry to have created such a stir I was only trying to pass on my knowledge to help .If you do use either a sheet bend or a reef knot make sure you tie it the correct way as there are a number of ways with each knot that are less secure than the correct way.

Have taught knots as well, often the only person who people could take the pioneer style badges with. That is mainly why I sometimes doubt the reef knot stories, simply because having seen so many people claim reef knot when it is not.

I think the big point I wanted to pass on to people is that a lot of these knots are out of fashion because of the change of materials. I have a wide arsenal because I worked with a lot of natural stuff, then went to the man-made stuff, and had to learn a whole new group of knots.

As for causing a stir, I think both you, and John have put your points well. Ref John's knowledge I keep meaning to check to see if I saved any of his articles. In ref to your knowledge, your website speaks for itself, and the questions I asked were honest. I am looking for a good rope supplier, I was interested in how you solved my age old problem of finishing splices(the conversation we could have), and would be interested in learning the wire rope skills. The wire turks head looks very nice!

Edit: Big surprise for me is the people who use the Timber hitch, a knot I think I have only ever used for its given purpose. Might have to look again at that.

 

[Satyr]

Tensionless hitch on both trees for the ridge line

Retied fig 8s to attach the guy lines to the tarp and a short cows tail to the tarp apex

Blakes hitches to tension the tarp apex and guy lines

(and I am a professional rope swinger/instructor yada, yada)

 

[K.NYPH]

Hi Minotaur,Yes the turks head is a turks head of a sort I made it by making wire grommets and interlocked them with each of the proceeding ones as they were made, it was a night mare when it came to the last one as there is very little room to work in ,it was a bit of a mad challenge I gave myself.
Re rope ,yes I do sell a variety of rope ,please go to my web site below , my contact details are on there give me a ring.
If you wish to learn rope work skills ditto give me a ring and we could set up a day at a very reasonable cost.

 

[Minotaur]

Yes the turks head is a turks head of a sort I made it by making wire grommets and interlocked them with each of the proceeding ones as they were made, it was a night mare when it came to the last one as there is very little room to work in ,it was a bit of a mad challenge I gave myself.

Clever, was scratching my head as to how you had sealed it at the end.

Re rope ,yes I do sell a variety of rope ,please go to my web site below , my contact details are on there give me a ring.

Cool, have added your site, will be in touch.

If you wish to learn rope work skills ditto give me a ring and we could set up a day at a very reasonable cost.

Trying to get to one of the fairs you have listed, or will give you a bell.

 

[hanzo]

Aloha K.NYPH,

What is your opinion on the zeppelin bend for tying two ropes? I like it better than a sheet bend as it is more symmetrical and I think it is stronger. But I am no expert. I showed it to an Eagle Scout friend of mine who always uses the sheet bend and he liked it too.

For tarps, I like the Siberian and trucker's hitch for the ridge line. I love prussiks and find that they are great for tension the tarp on the ridge. And clove hitch at the stake and taut line at the tarp for tension works for me.

 

[Minotaur]

What is your opinion on the zeppelin bend for tying two ropes? I like it better than a sheet bend as it is more symmetrical and I think it is stronger. But I am no expert. I showed it to an Eagle Scout friend of mine who always uses the sheet bend and he liked it too.

It looks a lot like a Fishermans knot, so wonder if it has different thickness issues as well.

For tarps, I like the Siberian and trucker's hitch for the ridge line.

Does no one use a highwaymans hitch? Or has the Ray falconers knot replaced it for some reason?

I love prussiks and find that they are great for tension the tarp on the ridge. And clove hitch at the stake and taut line at the tarp for tension works for me.

Might be worth checking out the other prussik style knots people have mentioned. Think it might be catching up with the bowline for knot with the most varations.

 

[K.NYPH]

Aloha K.NYPH,

What is your opinion on the zeppelin bend for tying two ropes? I like it better than a sheet bend as it is more symmetrical and I think it is stronger. But I am no expert. I showed it to an Eagle Scout friend of mine who always uses the sheet bend and he liked it too.

For tarps, I like the Siberian and trucker's hitch for the ridge line. I love prussiks and find that they are great for tension the tarp on the ridge. And clove hitch at the stake and taut line at the tarp for tension works for me.

I think the Zeppelin bend is very sexy ( Sorry its a knot thing) and yes its ok to use ,as with most bends if you add stopper knots to the two tail ends you increase the safety of the bend with regards to slippage.

 

[maddave]

And remember the old saying....... If you can't tie knots.......Tie lots !!!

 

[hanzo]

I think the Zeppelin bend is very sexy ( Sorry its a knot thing) and yes its ok to use ,as with most bends if you add stopper knots to the two tail ends you increase the safety of the bend with regards to slippage.

69 can be a sexy way to start I suppose.