Back to Elves.........what about Ents ? Forest folks, and Ent wives, who grew fruit trees and gardens
What about Pixies or Gnomes?? Did they use a sil nylon Tarp and a TI Spork and did they live on a diet of leppin gel and peanuts??
"Elvenising" my equipment.
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What about Pixies or Gnomes?? Did they use a sil nylon Tarp and a TI Spork and did they live on a diet of leppin gel and peanuts??
Well, using Tolkien as the guide, the 21st century elf would start with (warning, lots of wool here, but is the original -- and still the best -- high tech outdoor fabric):
a cloak or cloak like thing:
good soft wool, tightly woven in the form of a traditional cloak, or matchcoat/blanket. Used to keep you warm when moving, sleeping in and for protection from the wet (tightly woven wool can shed a lot of water and keeps you warm doing it.
hood or cowl:
if the cloak/blanket doesn't have one, a separate cowl (well covering shoulders for inclement weather). There is a lot to be said for a separate cowl... You can also fashion a blanket into this form, if you like.
lembas (waybread):
any variation on protein bars/power bars. Lots of useable calories and protein in a light package. These can pack up to 450 calories into a couple of ounces so three of these a day keep you going. Elves and dwarves don't take much food.
elven rope:
550 naturally.
knife:
but of course, it wouldn't be BCUK without something sharp about, nor would an elf travel into the woods without one.
belt axe (optional):
something large enough to do the job, small enough to be almost unnoticed.
flint and striker:
obviously. Although elves likely would have invented firesteels for their own use. So I'd substitute firesteel.
Wool waistcoat:
Sleeveless, going down to mid-thigh for keeping warm on the move and sleeping in. Like the traditional ones worn (in varying styles and lengths) from the 1600s-1700s. Legolas wore one and so did Elrond, presumably all elves did. I think the long waistcoat should make a comeback in modern outdoor circles, when you consider it you realize just how brilliant it was...
Shirt:
Also mid thigh. Good strong linen maybe. Perhaps soft, light wool flannel. Probably opened to the mid-chest. Maybe wraparound.
Light overgarment (optional):
Likely a mid-weight wool -- over the shirt and the waistcoat, under the cloak/matchoat. Mid thigh to knee length. You will sleep under this and the cloak/blanket.
Tights (long underwear):
also wool to keep legs warm on the move. Not the primary leg protection because...
Leggings:
Heavy wool or leather. From ankle to mid-thigh.
Sash or wide belt:
either (or maybe both)
Small backpack:
quite small, because we're not carrying much, some lembas and rope...
Some kind of cooking gear:
small and light, maybe a mucket type thing. Because elves did as little damage to the woods as possible, I imagine they'd admire a hobo stove. They would, of course, drink tea.
Stalking boots:
Light, flexible, with good soles. They don't have to be built mightily because you aren't carrying massive amounts of gear. Add loops to secure you leggings conveniently.
Not sure about the ground cover they might use...
The point is, the clothes are simple and versatile -- they could keep you warm in cold weather (not full-on winter perhaps, if snowing) and you could shed them as appropriate in the warm weather.
Anyhow, that would be my starting list and with some kind of ground cloth it would get you through a weekend in three seasons comfortably.
I left off the bow and arrows, but add them as you will
I think the thing to do would be look at what you wear, what you carry, and most importantly why you carry it.
To look at everything from a more work like prospective. This is not the stuff you are going to use for the next week, but for the next year.
The modern lightweight hiking idea comes from a hike of 2650 miles.
One of the big things would be to look at everything, and think if that breaks, or rips can I fix it? A lot of those fancy modern materials, are a nightmare if damaged.
If I lose that can I replace it?
I do not think, an elf would carry paracord, or use Goretex. It does not fit with the way they see, and experience the world.
To look at everything from a more work like prospective. This is not the stuff you are going to use for the next week, but for the next year.
The modern lightweight hiking idea comes from a hike of 2650 miles.
One of the big things would be to look at everything, and think if that breaks, or rips can I fix it? A lot of those fancy modern materials, are a nightmare if damaged.
If I lose that can I replace it?
I do not think, an elf would carry paracord, or use Goretex. It does not fit with the way they see, and experience the world.
I want to apologize for my post regarding the "distribution grid". It was intended for another thread where there was a completely different discussion going on.
I have absolutely no idea how my comments ended up here in a discussion of kit reduction.
So, I'm actually not insane. Nor was I trying to hijack the thread. Somehow I just made a mistake, that I don't understand. Sorry.
I have absolutely no idea how my comments ended up here in a discussion of kit reduction.
So, I'm actually not insane. Nor was I trying to hijack the thread. Somehow I just made a mistake, that I don't understand. Sorry.
The latter parts of this thread reminded me of a good episode of 'Father Ted'
Where Ted tries to explain the difference between Dreams and Reality to Dougal..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-0cgq6THR4
..
Back to Elves.........what about Ents ? Forest folks, and Ent wives, who grew fruit trees and gardens
... Toddy
In Tolkien terms, I’m from the race of men but I feel rather closer to Ents than Elves.
I have been known to wind younger people up by telling them I only carry Elvin rope and then demonstrating that a firm knot in it comes undone at my command without me touching it (a highwaymans hitch, of course). I do always show them how it was done afterwards.
I am also interested in minimizing the amount of gear I carry aswell as perhaps leaning towards more natural alternatives but I find it hard to leave anything behind!
I am very much a "what if" kinda guy.
I like to be prepared for everything, which generally means dragging my house behind me! haha (Not really but still....)
Any ideas for sleeping systems?
Perhaps cooking?
I tend to have to pack a 100L sack when I go away!
Perhaps I should post what gear I actually carry and you could poke fun out of it?
Anyway Ideas would be much appreciated
Thanks
I am very much a "what if" kinda guy.
I like to be prepared for everything, which generally means dragging my house behind me! haha (Not really but still....)
Any ideas for sleeping systems?
Perhaps cooking?
I tend to have to pack a 100L sack when I go away!
Perhaps I should post what gear I actually carry and you could poke fun out of it?
Anyway Ideas would be much appreciated
Thanks
Sleep systems again depend on you, your environment and your possible or probable weather conditions. 'Elvishly'/'traditionally' (whatever those words mean), I expect you'd be walking around in much of your 'sleep system'. Can you guarantee you can light a fire and burn it all night? If so pull your cloak around you and bed down... for a few hours until you have to build the fire up again. Will you be able to make a brush bed? If so you don't need a foam pad/Thermarest/hair-on skin but you will need to spend extra time gathering and setting up your bed. Etc.
Something I think we should always remember with our aspirations to being like elves/Nessmuk/Iron Age Britons/whathaveyou is that they would often use natural resources to perform certain tasks. Heck, it's something we are supposed to be learning in bushcraft (whatever that is ;-) ). However when we cannot or will not use such natural resources we have to bring in kit to do those same jobs. No fire? Bring a warmer 'sleep system' and a stove. No hunting, fishing or trapping? Ditch the bow/rifle/rod/snares and take rations with you. Etc.
Something I think we should always remember with our aspirations to being like elves/Nessmuk/Iron Age Britons/whathaveyou is that they would often use natural resources to perform certain tasks. Heck, it's something we are supposed to be learning in bushcraft (whatever that is ;-) ). However when we cannot or will not use such natural resources we have to bring in kit to do those same jobs. No fire? Bring a warmer 'sleep system' and a stove. No hunting, fishing or trapping? Ditch the bow/rifle/rod/snares and take rations with you. Etc.
I am also interested in minimizing the amount of gear I carry aswell as perhaps leaning towards more natural alternatives but I find it hard to leave anything behind!
I am very much a "what if" kinda guy.
I like to be prepared for everything, which generally means dragging my house behind me! haha (Not really but still....)
Any ideas for sleeping systems?
Perhaps cooking?
I tend to have to pack a 100L sack when I go away!
Perhaps I should post what gear I actually carry and you could poke fun out of it?
Anyway Ideas would be much appreciated
Thanks
Sleeping system; Tarp, blanket and your clothes
Cooking; a pot with bail.
I met an old reindeer herder last time I was up in the far north. We had a long chat over a pot of coffe. He had very little gear. No sleeping bag for instance, no gore-tex, no tent and so on. I asked him how he slept, he said "on a sleeping mat", i asked him "but what if you get cold?", he replied "I go up and run a few laps", "What if it rains?", "Then I get wet, I'm not made of sugar you know". He was of the old stock, the kind which aren't made no longer. These guys made it to a principle to not look like a tourist while out on longer hikes. Although they do have access to a network of herder cabins. I kind of lost the point here, but I think I meant to say, that people have managed fine with the above, and it doesn't have to involve a lot of depletion of resources. But you will be cold and miserable from time to time, that's a part of life. On the other hand, it will give contrast so when you're warm, dry and fed you will be happier. Also this cold, hungry shivering feelings never seem so bad afterwards, usually those times fall outof memory, or at least I go out and do it again for some mysterious reason.
Sometimes you read comments like "any old fool can be cold and miserable and that's wrong, his bushcraft is weak" etc. Well, I tell you, reality is one of the best teachers in the world, instant feedback. I bet you that even these mysterious fellas called natives or ancients or so were cold, shivering and hungry from time to time, and the were more prominent in the field of bushcraft than anybody here. It just us lazy sods who sit in front of our computers thinking that with just a little knowledge (and an expensive knife) I could be perfectly comfortable in whatever circumstances nature, time and the weather can throw at me.
Go out there, try it, it's worth it. No backup, no what ifs, just do it. You will evolve, learn, develop etc.
I sort of agree with what you are saying. We have access to a vast library of information on different cultures, and equipment. More importantly, we now have a greater understanding of the way our world works.
What we lack is sort of the point of this forum, website, and Bushcraft. We do not have the day to day ability, skill, or knowledge that an Iron Age person etc would have had.
Also we have the modern world flowing around us, with all of its distractions, and new inventions. The very latest must have. My personal favorite recently was they have proof that our heads do not lose heat faster than the rest of our bodies. Think about this wonderful research, that must have taken years to work out, and burned untold amounts of money.
I can almost guarantee that the old natives would swap cold wet hungry and miserable for warm full and dry, 99.99 times out of a hundred.
Plus looking at the big picture, theres me camping full of food, warm and dry and a life expectancy of four score years and ten. And theres your vision of this pastoral idyll, your plucky native, cold wet and hungry with a life expectancy of 40 years if hes lucky.
But you are right reality is the best teacher, out there in the real world natives are swapping their monkey skins for denim and their hand to mouth subsistence for life in the city with running water, a full belly, a dry place to sleep, and a future that will not end in a premature death from cooking smoke inhalation and pneumonia.
So to paraphrase your saying
"Only a fool will be cold and miserable, if he has a alternative
Humaity only exists because we can adapt, we can survive in the most inhospitable regions, and sometimes I think we 'need' that effort to remember that we are humans, that we actually belong in the natural world and not just in the plastic and concrete oil guzzling one we have created.
Tadpole's right too though, those who had no choice but to live that life usually found it a short and at times incredibly hard one.
cheers,
Toddy
Tadpole, I think your post is filled with flawed reasoning and flawed history.
But in particular, I think it's a grave mistake to say things like "Only a fool will be cold and miserable, if he has an alternative."
In fact, many of the greatest achievements of humanity -- and certainly all of the greatest adventures -- came about as a result of people who didn't care a whit about whether they were cold or miserable and instead focused on some larger goal. And they decided to expose themselves and head over yonder intentionally -- they were not fools and nor are those people who don't care much about comfort today.
I think you're overestimating the value of comfort, and you don't see that it can be a narcotic. It can dull the senses and weaken the spirit.
Learning not to care much about a full belly and perfect comfort and being unafraid of hunger and some misery in pursuit of something is one of the steps you make on the road to real living.
Try some adventuresome privation, friend, you'll find you like it.
