a worrying trend towards orthodoxy?

[Landy_Dom]

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a common trend towards everyone doing the same sort of thing with the same sort of kit... what I mean is - if you're looking for an axe - it seems the GB SFA is THE one to go for... if a folding saw then it HAS to be the Bahco Laplander.. If cooking pots they HAVE to be stainless and hung over an open fire.... with knives there's more choice, but it ideally has to be 3 1/2 - 4", scandi grind carbon steel in a veg tanned leather sheath (handmade) with firesteel loop.

Is this ringing a bell? is this because these things are genuinely the best in terms of value / function etc., or is there a little bit of snobbery creeping into our game, here? I'm not sure myself, I thought I'd post a few thoughts and see what others thought. Does anyone feel second class because they don't have the "right" kit? Or am I imagining this?

Another thing is..... the bushcraft ideal.... the picture that sells the product as it were - is the all natural materials shelter by the open fire, in the wilderness. Now I don't know about you, but in the real world here in the UK, it's rather difficult to find land to do that, and as ecologically aware people, should we be lighting fires or hacking about with natural materials when we want to promote the "low impact" approach?

anyway - rant over - tell me if you think I'm going off on one here, or if there is something here that strikes a chord?

Cheers,

Dom.

 

[Sleepy Weasel]

Hi Landy Dom

From what I've seen out there, it seems that the people who've not been at it for long go for the kit which RM uses, This could be because RM's been using it and he knows it works and is good quality The old hands tend to use the stuff they've been using for years, again because they've been using it and they know it works, and is of sufficient quality not to fall apart over the years. It could be said that if you went to a garage and you saw the mechanics using Snap-on tools, you'de think that Snap-on were pretty good tools that were worth having yourself.


Having said that, I do own a GB hunters axe, a scandi knife(Brusletto Nansen) and a Zebra stainless Billy can. My tarp is a Katmandu trading one which I bought some 15 years ago coz I was fed up of using poncho's. I also use a WS MOD Aircrew survival knife, a crusader mug. I have a goretex bivvi bought at a car boot sale for a fiver and I'm not sure who makes that one.

IMHO the kit used by people is down to personal preference, but for people just coming into the art having read or seen Ray Mears they would think that the kit he uses is the only kit available. Untill they start using it and tailoring their kit to their needs, they are going to look like Ray clones(It could be worse, just think of Bear clones!)

I'll get me coat.........

 

[John Fenna]

I think the gear thing is based on the fact that certain bits of kit have proven effective to some folk who then reccommend them, more buy them and find them good, word spreads and everyone soon has the same kit!
As to ecco awareness bit - wood fires are carbon neutral gas/petrol are not and with the packaging, transport etc leave a huge impact on the globe, if not on your local wood!
OK there are few places that you can get perm to chop down trees to build a shelter so tarps etc are the nearest that most will get to "being at one with nature" at a big meet.
Some places allow small scale natural shelter building though, and small numbers are kinder to the environment anyway....
When poss I take firewood, from eco sources such as wind fall /hedge trashing, skips etc to meets along with hazel poles, ash poles and other wood for carving etc, to meets.
It is a green alternative to wrecking one bit of woodland and much comes from my own garden!
The use of excessive amounts of petrochemical derived fuel/shelter materials is less green than recycling/copicing etc.
Just my thoughts

 

[jasons]

I have meet mors kochanski and his kit looks like and is from a pound shop

 

[John Fenna]

Bargaind can be just that! Re-cycling works!
Is it that he knows what he wants, sees it in good places and gets equiped on the cheap!
I got a brand new Vyyella shirt in a charity shop once brill kit worth a fortune going very cheap....it was too small for me !
Most of my knife/spoon/leather working tools come from pound shops and are well up to the task. They do not get the volume of work that justifies spending more on them....
Or is it that his gear is so well used the "Good" labels have worn off?
Has the man found what works for him, is not fussed what it looks like, has the skills to fettle kit himself so can buy cheap and invest skill and time in turning OKish kit into gems?
Those of us without the skill/time have to buy, on recommendation, the things that work straight out of the box....

 

[Mikey P]

Some good points made above.

Yeah, I agree there is probably a little bit of snobbery in some areas but, if you read the forums here, there is also quite a lot of 'inverse snobbery' (AW knives, etc).

We also seem to delight in finding some reall useful but cheapo objects and then passing on the info to others, so it's a hard one to call.

I would echo John Fenna's thoughts that items such as the Gransfors SFA are popular because they are...well...really good! People will often want to buy a quality item of gear to last them a while and so will usually go for the one's that are widely recommended. This is because most of us tdo not have the chance to try things out before we buy them, so we want to reduce the risk of something being not rigt for the job in hand.

Also, whilst we often start off with a cheap or medium-cost piece of kit when we set out (eg, Frost Mora or Helle knife), we often want to upgrade at some point when we feel we may have outgrown something or if we have discovered limitations in use. Hence, the market for the more expensive items.

Personally, I started out with an old cotton jacket but progressed to a more expensive Swanni when my brother brought me one back from New Zealand. I don't regret it at all and it has proved to be an excellent item of robust and warm clothing - just like the reviews say it is.

I'm happy to look at and assess just about anything and will usually go for the most economical bit that does the job. It may be a cheap item, or it may be more expensive.

I suppose we are, in fact, in danger of becoming 'orthodox' but that's not a bad thing as long as we are still open to try new stuff. I reckon the bushcrafter's uniform would be:

Swanndri
Mora/F1/AW knife
Leather Possibles Pouch (on leather belt) with firesteel, paracord and SAK
Karrimore Sabre Daysack (with Kelly Kettle and Zebra Billy!)
Fjellraven Forester Trousers
Merino top or RM T-shirt
​

What else should be on there? Have I missed something obvious?

 

[jasons]

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a common trend towards everyone doing the same sort of thing with the same sort of kit... what I mean is - if you're looking for an axe - it seems the GB SFA is THE one to go for... if a folding saw then it HAS to be the Bahco Laplander.. If cooking pots they HAVE to be stainless and hung over an open fire.... with knives there's more choice, but it ideally has to be 3 1/2 - 4", scandi grind carbon steel in a veg tanned leather sheath (handmade) with firesteel loop.

Is this ringing a bell? is this because these things are genuinely the best in terms of value / function etc., or is there a little bit of snobbery creeping into our game, here? I'm not sure myself, I thought I'd post a few thoughts and see what others thought. Does anyone feel second class because they don't have the "right" kit? Or am I imagining this?

Another thing is..... the bushcraft ideal.... the picture that sells the product as it were - is the all natural materials shelter by the open fire, in the wilderness. Now I don't know about you, but in the real world here in the UK, it's rather difficult to find land to do that, and as ecologically aware people, should we be lighting fires or hacking about with natural materials when we want to promote the "low impact" approach?

anyway - rant over - tell me if you think I'm going off on one here, or if there is something here that strikes a chord?

Cheers,

Dom.

Why are you worrying about what kit folk are useing I dont

 

[Grooveski]

I've heard tell of this "bushcraft uniform" and all these gear clones but have never met them.

Here's a pic Toddy took once, probably the closest anyone's come to taking a group photo at a scottish meet. All of the other meets I've been to have had just as varied a selection of clobber and gear.
Never come across snobbery either. A few healthy discussions on the merits of on piece of kit over another but none that have ended in a consensus.

Personaly I have none of the items listed so far on this thread. Sure, there's a couple I'd like and I do have a GB axe(albeit a carpenter).
About the only clone items I can think of round here are hammock rigs, and we've MagiKelly to thank for that.

 

[big_swede]

I agree with mr fenna, fires are way more ecological then any meth or petrol based cooking. It does require some responsibility from the user, specially when it comes to masking the used fire pit. Done correctly it doesn't take many weeks for nature to recover.

I think the snobbery is a UK-phenomenon, or maybe even BcUk? Instead of ranting about what people use, why not do a post about an outing with the non-snobbish kit YOU USE and post pics from it, to prove that other stuff works as well? Or just a list of less snobbish alternatives? If you look in kit chatter and cutting tools, I think you'll see that a lot of the posts are about cheaper alternatives, do a search on army trangia or bahco and you'll end up with loads.

Personally I hold Mors in higher regard than RM and have never ever bought something based on what anyone of those use. I buy stuff that I think looks hi-quality, and that I know for a fact works for friends or friends friends. Then it is time for a thourough testing period. If it works, it's a keeper, otherwise it's the 'bay or the bin (depending on price). A lot of the stuff RM uses has been available here for decades, my mother wears fjällräven and we had an old GB splitting maul at our summer house. Swanndris have also been around for a long time. I don't see what's bad about it? Although I can recognise what your saying, there is a lot of brands and makes that are at least equal, but are the price so different that it makes the first alternatives snobbish? Not IMHO. And what's snobbish about a mora?

Counter-rant over.

 

[Northern Giant UK]

To each his/her own I'd say. When I first joined BCUK I felt the same but there is a lot to be said for the "Mearsy" gear (tho personally I still have a problem with the shirt price but that's a kettle I don't want to reopen :BlueTeamE ).
If people like a certain kind of gear then I see no problem with it and besides they can probably afford it but for those who can't there are those here who make their own kit (which is surely better suited to their own requirements), Wayland fmade a brilliant stove set from a £2 utensil drainer and (i think) a steel coffee jar to name but 1.
You could get the full price Trangia or, like me get the super xheapo (but bombproof) Lidl version.
You could get the Laplander saw (one you missed their Mikey P lol) or, like me the super cheapo £3 pruning saw (which my brother says is better).
Frost Mora! now I don't see any reason to not get one they're just brilliant!
The list could go on . .Just remember not to skimp on your FAK!!!

At the end of the day as long as you enjoy it (and you do as little harm as possible), go for it.

Kev

 

[JohnC]

I've heard tell of this "bushcraft uniform" and all these gear clones but have never met them.

Here's a pic Toddy took once, probably the closest anyone's come to taking a group photo at a scottish meet. All of the other meets I've been to have had just as varied a selection of clobber and gear.

If I recall you were wearing a wetsuit... and there was a viking there too..

 

[lavrentyuk]

Any old motorcyclists/bikers out there will see the onset of MZcred. Those of us lucky enough to have experienced the joys of Eastern Bloc motorcycling at its best took/take pride in making do. Hand guards, pah, old cut down washing up bottles or oil bottles do the job just as well - preferably not even washed out. I have seen fairings made out of old sestate agents signs hot moulded and cut to shape. There will always be those for whom only the 'percieved' best will do, simuilarly there will be others who revel in seeking out the cheapest or making our own.

I enjoy reading about both attitudes on the list.

So how many old MZers are there out there then ? Just as good as any Landrover.

Richard

 

[andy_e]

I'm really not sure, I'm a bit of a gear hog myself, the stuff I first bought was effective and cheap, in many cases picked up whenever I found a bargain. However as I've heard recommendations or seen kit that looks like it might be better or that I just want and where I've have the money I've bought it. I bought a Laplander saw because I wanted to find out if it was better than the cheap B&Q one I had - if it is it's only just better, has a more secure locking mechanism perhaps. I bought a Mora because it was less than a tenner and was well recommended. I bought a swannie because everyone was raving about wool and I wanted to give it a go, I'm glad I did.

I think there is a lot of common ground, but there's also a great deal of variety and better still character, some of the best gear I've seen has been made by members here. But at the risk of sounding clichéd: at the end of the day it's not the gear you have, it's how you use it. If you can get outdoors, make yourself (reasonably ) comfortable and enjoy yourself that's all that counts to me.

 

[Shewie]

Personally speaking when I got it into this bushcraft malarky I asked all the usual newbie questions such as, which pack, which knife and which axe etc. I then made my purchase choices based on the knowledge and recommendations from those with experience. Coming from a mountaineering and wild camping background most of my gear was either bright red or other larish colours anyway, I`ve still kept some of the old faithful stuff but admittedly I`ve gone down the browns and greens trail.

I suppose the gear we choose to use should be up to the job and therefore probably some of the most commonly used by other folk. That`s just the way it is.

My English doesn`t seem to be making much sense today so I`m gonna leave this thread to someone who can do a better job.


Rich

 

[BorderReiver]

Most folks,when they are starting out,look around for advice on the best kit.
BcUK is full of advice from experienced users and it's only natural that the good gear gets selected.

After a bit of experience you make your own mind up and discard the unsuitable (for you) gear.

It's self evident that the best kit is going to be used by the majority of folks.It's not conforming,or copying,or being a sheep;it's just that it's sensible to use what works.

As for RM gear being in fashion (I don't have any of it), he is a very experienced bushcrafter and it makes sense for the inexperienced to start off with something that works.

Above all,it's a hobby,a bit of fun and if using the latest gizmo makes you happy,go for it.

 

[John Fenna]

Hey - for a Tyke your English is pretty good!
I understand and agree with your sentiments - I too once had some garish gear (Orange gaiters for pitys sake!) but now try to avoid being visual polution....greens and browns rule!

 

[Shewie]

Glad you got the gist of it John as I`m not sure I did after reading it back.

Now where did I put those pro-plus tablets ??


Rich

Hey - for a Tyke your English is pretty good!
I understand and agree with your sentiments - I too once had some garish gear (Orange gaiters for pitys sake!) but now try to avoid being visual polution....greens and browns rule!

 

[Landy_Dom]

WOW :yikes:

I thought this thread might generate some interest and some discussion, but I didn't anticipate this number of replies in just a few hours.

Helpful opinions, guys - it would seem the sameness is mostly a result of experimentation and recommendation rather than just blind copying or brand-slavery. That's reassuring.

Cheers to all who've posted :You_Rock_

Dom.

 

[gregorach]

As an example, I bought my Laplander saw back when the brand was called Sandvik, and many years before I'd ever heard of "bushcraft" or "Ray Mears". It's simply a really good tool. I was looking for a folding saw for wild camping, and it fitted the bill perfectly. How was I to know that it would end up becoming "fashionable"?

And that's not the only bit of kit I've bought only to find out later that it was endorsed by Mr Mears...

 

[Tiley]

As just about everyone else here, it's not so much about orthodoxy (i.e. being unoriginal), it's about getting and using what works. Like any activity, there is only a limited number of manufacturers of stuff to suit our needs and, within that group, a smaller number who make kit that fits the bill. Our choice is necessarily narrowed but does that make GB axe/Frosts Mora/Swannie/Zebra billy can users orthodox? I don't think so; it means, perhaps to a fault, that this is kit that works and will last. I would say snobbery doesn't come into it - experience, personal as well as that of others, and cash are the controls for most of us.