Why most Leukus does not have guard ?

[Urdasein]

(picture from my instagram)

I noticed that leukus (and pukko) has no guard...

However, stabbing motions is something I do frequently when making very small, pencil sized, kindlings.

A also enjoy a "militarized" leuku known as the Stromeng KS8F and the guard does not get in way at all... In fact, It adds a lot of comfort...

So, I'm wondering why do nordic knives have no gard ? It's a mystery ! If someone knows, please tell.

Regards.

 

[TLM]

One of the forever subjects. As a native puukko user I would say that because the guard is not needed. If one really is into stabbing things there are ways to hold a puukko of any size securely. A normal user learns them and tends to forget them.

The other reason is that what we are looking now is the tool puukko, in older times the larger weapon was called "väkipuukko" bur apparently guards were not that common on them either.

 

[Urdasein]

"If one really is into stabbing things there are ways to hold a puukko of any size securely."

Hi.

How do you hold a puukko securely for thrusting and stabbing motions ?

Regards.

 

[TLM]

For thrusting one holds the pommel on the palm otherwise keeping kind of foil grip. Easiest on short handled knives. Downwards stabbing put your thumb on the pommel.

I don't think that I have ever had the need for either but it was included in the schooling received from grandfather ...

 

[Toddy]

Okay, I'm curious ?
What kind of 'stab' do you mean ? I don't think I've ever stabbed firewood/kindling.
Occasionally stabbed into end grain to hold the knife steady to pull bark like lime through to make even strips, but I think that's pretty much it.

 

[Urdasein]

@Toddy

I very often use dead standing hazel wood for my "ikea stove": hazel is a light wood that catch fire easily, can be harvested most of the time without tools, with straight grain that is easy to split and make very fine shavings. A very underated wood IMHO.

Once the wood is splitted at least in half, I press the tip of the knife on the middle of the stick to "glue" the stock on the knife and then I make a pickaxe motion followed by a wrist turn.

When you got the trick, you can make several "pencils" in a kind of chain motion. It requires a knife with a strong gard... Because the risk of slipping on the blade is real.

The second thing I do often, is using the tip in order to harvest pine resins from the scars of a tree (another very good fire starter). The risk of slipping on the blade is less ovious but still treacherous...

And there are the "goofies" uses like opening a can, digging in the soil and stuff.. Because I'm just an adult shaped child XD

Regards.

@TLM

Thank you for your answer. I did know the thumb trick but I'm not satisfied with the security provided. I'm not a native user, I've not grown up with an outdoor grand father and therefore, I guess that I need "side wheels" on my bicycle. =)

I have no shame about this. I have seen south asian people splitting coconuts I a way that if I tried to do the same... 100% I'd had lost one arm ! I guess it's kinda the same with "indigenous" pukko users.

It's a shame, really. Leukus are IMHO the best balanced and lightweight chopping tools. They just lacks of a strong gard (still IMHO).

And I totally understand the traditionnal opinion about not putting guards. No problem at all. The is the KS8F and custom made options, I won't complain.

 

[Herman30]

"If one really is into stabbing things there are ways to hold a puukko of any size securely."

Hi.

How do you hold a puukko securely for thrusting and stabbing motions ?

Regards.

 

[Herman30]

Leukus are IMHO the best balanced and lightweight chopping tools. They just lacks of a strong gard (still IMHO).

This is as I understand the history of leuku; way up in lapland where sami people live (above the tree line) there are only very small trees and bushes so they have no use for an axe. Leuku is/was their tool for processing wood similar to a machete. Also used to crush rein deer bones when eating to get to the marrow.
It is not a stabbing tool, more like a machete.

 

[Urdasein]

@Herman30

My way of doing things is as the following:

- larger cuts, falling dead standing trees -> folding saw, but most of the time bare hands are enough (true !)
- splitting "thumb sized" branches, rough carving both in chopping and cutting motions (A flat surface from a dead Ivy for example in order to make friction fire), delimbing green hazel, cutting some brambles laying on the trail -> leuku (350g with sheath, my beloved Gransfors wildlife hatchet is 680g)
- food -> Swiss Army Knife that I keep as clean as possible.
- splitting logs or chopping seasoned wood ->I just don't do that.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Herman and TLM,

Were some of these knives intended to be used while wearing mittens? The deep cross section of Leukus in particular seem like they are shaped with this in mind.

 

[Herman30]

Herman and TLM,

Were some of these knives intended to be used while wearing mittens?

I am absolutly shure of it, half of the year is winter in Lapland.

PS. Did some reading on-line and these big leukus where also used when butchering reindeers for cutting the carcass into smaller pieces.

 

[Toddy]

@Toddy

I very often use dead standing hazel wood for my "ikea stove": hazel is a light wood that catch fire easily, can be harvested most of the time without tools, with straight grain that is easy to split and make very fine shavings. A very underated wood IMHO.

Once the wood is splitted at least in half, I press the tip of the knife on the middle of the stick to "glue" the stock on the knife and then I make a pickaxe motion followed by a wrist turn.

When you got the trick, you can make several "pencils" in a kind of chain motion. It requires a knife with a strong gard... Because the risk of slipping on the blade is real.

The second thing I do often, is using the tip in order to harvest pine resins from the scars of a tree (another very good fire starter). The risk of slipping on the blade is less ovious but still treacherous...

And there are the "goofies" uses like opening a can, digging in the soil and stuff.. Because I'm just an adult shaped child XD

Regards.

@TLM

Thank you for your answer. I did know the thumb trick but I'm not satisfied with the security provided. I'm not a native user, I've not grown up with an outdoor grand father and therefore, I guess that I need "side wheels" on my bicycle. =)

I have no shame about this. I have seen south asian people splitting coconuts I a way that if I tried to do the same... 100% I'd had lost one arm ! I guess it's kinda the same with "indigenous" pukko users.

It's a shame, really. Leukus are IMHO the best balanced and lightweight chopping tools. They just lacks of a strong gard (still IMHO).

And I totally understand the traditionnal opinion about not putting guards. No problem at all. The is the KS8F and custom made options, I won't complain.

Hazel by it's very nature splits easily though. Burns well without spitting when it's dry. I just slip the knife into the end grain and twist slightly and then kedge it apart along it's length. It's how it's split it for basketry too. Like willow or privet.
Ivy, big ivy that is, splits fine if it's fresh, it's a right royal pain as it dries out though. I like it for hearth boards but try to break it open before it dries. I have some that's nearly 10cms wide just now Huge great tree came crashing down in the last gales and the ivy had acted like a sail and caught the wind. Enormous great stems on it.

On the whole a guard is a pest of a thing for almost every use that I have for a knife. I think it can make one complacent that the knife is 'safe' too, instead of paying attention to the knife and what it's being used to do. It's often seen on a child's knife, but there's a price to pay for that because the child then has to learn how to use knives that don't have the guards.
Just my tuppence ha'penny worth.

A good Leuku is a very good tool indeed though

 

[Kadushu]

I cut myself quite deeply on a leuku. At the time I was snedding some branches, machete fashion, and on the return motion upward the tip of the knife caught a branch and my index finger slid onto the blade. Since then I've been pretty obsessed with having a guard on my knives.

 

[TLM]

When a leuku is used for chopping (and a large one is really a chopping tool for processing small birch) it is held with half a hand holding the pommel end, that way it is practically impossible to slide one's hand forward. If it is caught it just drops from one's hand, actually I don't think that has ever happened to me.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Traditional leukus and quite a lot of puukkos have handles that taper towards the blade with no shaping for the index finger to drop into. Personally I do not like how this feels and much prefer something where the handle has some shape. With adequate shape, I think the matter of there being no guard is much less of an issue.
This is one I re-handled and sheathed for a friend. He had the original wood handled and leather sheathed version on a rainy week long canoe trip and said the wood swelled badly and the leather became like limp pasta.

 

[C_Claycomb]

When a leuku is used for chopping (and a large one is really a chopping tool for processing small birch) it is held with half a hand holding the pommel end, that way it is practically impossible to slide one's hand forward. If it is caught it just drops from one's hand, actually I don't think that has ever happened to me.

I don't have a picture of that hold with a leuku, but I have another photo that may be close. Is this the sort of hold you mean?



All the talk about guards reminds me of some of the first knives I made, based upon the designs of Ed Fowler. This was leuku size...

 

[gra_farmer]

Mine has a sort of guard, the shaping of the handle is quite different to most (made by a friend of mine). The shape makes your hand sit further back, so a perfect chopper.

I must admit it does feel safer in hard use. Mora for scale

Sent from my LLD-L31 using Tapatalk

 

[Urdasein]

@C_Claycomb

That's a very nice piece (leuku) !

About your knife with guard, what do you think about ricassos ? It is something I totally can't stand if they are larger than 1cm.

 

[TLM]

Is this the sort of hold you mean?

Yes, that's it. Three fingers hold the handle and little finger curls over the pommel and prevents the hand from sliding forward. After some time it is a fairly easy holding position and it allows a very natural whacking motion using the wrist.

 

[C_Claycomb]

@C_Claycomb

That's a very nice piece (leuku) !

About your knife with guard, what do you think about ricassos ? It is something I totally can't stand if they are larger than 1cm.

Thanks.
I don't like how large ricassos affect function for a general outdoors and wood working knife. I still think they look good in some cases, but I tend not to have large ones any more. My experience has been that larger ones are not detrimental on a knife that is used solely for game prep (gutting, skinning and butchery).

The Ed Fowler design philosophy came from ranch work and big game hunting and butchery. The big guard, thick blade and 19 - 25mm ricasso all worked together to allow very secure hold of the knife even if your hand was covered in bear fat. While he carried a knife daily and worked with one a lot more than most folk who enjoy "bushcraft", he didn't do much wood carving, nor light weight back pack camping.