anybody have any experience or opinions about this rucksack? The price seems right. https://majorsurplus.com/belgium-m97-camo-rucksack.html
Belgium Rucksack
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Humble Trekker over on Youtube did a long term revue with mixed results discovering problems with buckles and a weak zip on the lower compartment. Though he does point out as with all military surplus there's no telling what kind of abuse it suffered before reaching him. Personally I like the shape of the pack but would be sorely tempted to ditch the internal metalwork to get the weight down.
Used it during my time in the Belgian military. Very sturdy, easy to load, doesn't soak water that quickly, keeps its integrity. The padding could be better though, if you're looking for a pack for longer hikes you might want to look for something with a bit more cushion. As a pack for overnighters or a wintertrek (wearing more layers) it is pretty good for what you pay.
The fabric it is made of is very close to G1000 imo, almost impossible to tear.
The fabric it is made of is very close to G1000 imo, almost impossible to tear.
G1000 - several versions exist
http://fjallraven.com.hk/explore-fjallraven/guides/material-guides/g-1000/four-types-of-g-1000.html
I preferred the old days, when there was only one G1000 and both the fabric and the garment were carefully handcrafted in Borås in Sweden.
The cotton was of proper quality, long fibers, just like jeans used to have.
Is that backpack really 9 kilos? Or 9 lb?
http://fjallraven.com.hk/explore-fjallraven/guides/material-guides/g-1000/four-types-of-g-1000.html
I preferred the old days, when there was only one G1000 and both the fabric and the garment were carefully handcrafted in Borås in Sweden.
The cotton was of proper quality, long fibers, just like jeans used to have.
Is that backpack really 9 kilos? Or 9 lb?
They write it:
It is Cordura Nylon.
9,05 lbs (=4082g)
That's a very heavy, very tough and long lasting very large rucksack.
It depends on the own body size and strength if that's a good choice.
In my opinion it's to heavy, but men who are 2 meters tall and farmers, gardeners or who work in another job like that could probably carry it, even if it's full.
I think it isn't good for free time hiking, but probably good for winter camping, if long distance hiking isn't the idea.
If it's full with a winter camping equipment, food and water, the total weight surely reaches between 20 and 30 kg.
I always try to stay under 16 kg all together.
This rucksack here is made from the same fabric but weights only 1400 g, volume 65 litres, with the option to attach a winter sleeping bag on top of it.
It's original German Army, the price is for a used rucksack in usually good conditions.
https://m.asmc.de/BW-Kampfrucksack-flecktarn-gebraucht
This very thin folding insulation mat has to be used in it as the back padding.
(Original German Army, used 425g)
https://m.asmc.de/BW-Isomatte-faltbar-gebraucht
I find that system comfortable until max 16 kg, 18 kg is the absolut maximum I would carry in and on top of it over shorter distances.
It has no hip belt. It isn't made to carry such high loads in it.
The really comfortable weight is between 7 and 13 kg. And I have no problem to pack my winter equipment like that, including the Snugpak Special Forces complete sleeping bag system attached on top of the flap. It is recommended until -20 *C I think.
But yes, if you want to put a spare winter suit in this rucksack you will get problems.
It was designed to defend Germany with normal soldiers, civilians in uniform, not to conquer Alaska with well trained special forces.
It is Cordura Nylon.
9,05 lbs (=4082g)
That's a very heavy, very tough and long lasting very large rucksack.
It depends on the own body size and strength if that's a good choice.
In my opinion it's to heavy, but men who are 2 meters tall and farmers, gardeners or who work in another job like that could probably carry it, even if it's full.
I think it isn't good for free time hiking, but probably good for winter camping, if long distance hiking isn't the idea.
If it's full with a winter camping equipment, food and water, the total weight surely reaches between 20 and 30 kg.
I always try to stay under 16 kg all together.
This rucksack here is made from the same fabric but weights only 1400 g, volume 65 litres, with the option to attach a winter sleeping bag on top of it.
It's original German Army, the price is for a used rucksack in usually good conditions.
https://m.asmc.de/BW-Kampfrucksack-flecktarn-gebraucht
This very thin folding insulation mat has to be used in it as the back padding.
(Original German Army, used 425g)
https://m.asmc.de/BW-Isomatte-faltbar-gebraucht
I find that system comfortable until max 16 kg, 18 kg is the absolut maximum I would carry in and on top of it over shorter distances.
It has no hip belt. It isn't made to carry such high loads in it.
The really comfortable weight is between 7 and 13 kg. And I have no problem to pack my winter equipment like that, including the Snugpak Special Forces complete sleeping bag system attached on top of the flap. It is recommended until -20 *C I think.
But yes, if you want to put a spare winter suit in this rucksack you will get problems.
It was designed to defend Germany with normal soldiers, civilians in uniform, not to conquer Alaska with well trained special forces.
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Yeah; most military rucksacks are buil haeavier than civilian gear. I also posted it on the BCUSA forum and somebody there asked if you could,lighten it by removing the metal framing and replacing it with something else. My first thoughts were “ probably, but what would you replace it with?”
It's mainly the fabric and the cut, the paddings, the zippers.
In my opinion it's no good idea to change the frame. I think it's still aluminium. Do you want to replace it with carbon fibres?
That would become a little bit expensive.
Do you really need 100 litres capacity?
Did I understand it right that you are 62 and live in Florida?
If I would live in Florida I would use less weight than in Germany, and here I usually use 34 litres capacity from 1.April until 1.November, my total rucksack weight is 6 kg without food and water, and I do not use transparent tent sheed and ground sheed and a Mc Donald's cup if I go hiking, like a lot of Americans do it.
Did you realize that American hikers often use modern equipments which are as heavy as the Belgian pack if it's empty?
Now a days you can fit your summer trekking equipment nearly in the pockets of a BDU suit!
In my opinion it's no good idea to change the frame. I think it's still aluminium. Do you want to replace it with carbon fibres?
That would become a little bit expensive.
Do you really need 100 litres capacity?
Did I understand it right that you are 62 and live in Florida?
If I would live in Florida I would use less weight than in Germany, and here I usually use 34 litres capacity from 1.April until 1.November, my total rucksack weight is 6 kg without food and water, and I do not use transparent tent sheed and ground sheed and a Mc Donald's cup if I go hiking, like a lot of Americans do it.
Did you realize that American hikers often use modern equipments which are as heavy as the Belgian pack if it's empty?
Now a days you can fit your summer trekking equipment nearly in the pockets of a BDU suit!
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No. I don’t need that much per se. I do carry a bit more than most though for my diabetic supplies (test meter, test strips, lancets and lancing devise, alcohol pads, and oral meds, as well as insulin which has to be kept cold and the pen needles) but still, I really don’t need it in summer. It might be nice in the Fall when running trap lines though, although I don’t do that anymore so I guess the point’s moot. Or when carrying ham radio equipment for a remote station (even then, it’s probably bigger than I need)
I already have a few mil surplus rucks that I like:
1) The venerable old ALICE medium
2) The ALICE large with frame
3) The CFP-90
I just thought it looked interesting and was curious. Especially at the price. Was thinking it might make a good canoeing bag or B.O.B. (Yeah; I keep one ready for emergency Evans for hurricanes and whatever)
To be honest, it reminds me of the Lowe-Alpine Stingray.
I already have a few mil surplus rucks that I like:
1) The venerable old ALICE medium
2) The ALICE large with frame
3) The CFP-90
I just thought it looked interesting and was curious. Especially at the price. Was thinking it might make a good canoeing bag or B.O.B. (Yeah; I keep one ready for emergency Evans for hurricanes and whatever)
To be honest, it reminds me of the Lowe-Alpine Stingray.
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I've replaced tubular aluminium internal frames with nylon plastic PVC/LDPE (toilet overflow pipe) using a hot-air paint stripper to soften and bend to shape and the same material is available in sheet form. As all military gear is typically over engineered to last at least two wars swapping to plastic should not an issue. The purpose of an internal frame is not structural per-se rather it's function is to maintain the shape/fit of the pack keeping it close to the back and stable preventing swaying from side-to-side. If you are tall enough and with some tweaks packing you may find that you don't need them at all.
Lowe Alpine?
Here it is:
It is identic with the civil version.
But the pouch zippers changed the direction.
http://www.endicotts.co.uk/content/dutch-gen-1-c-sting-rucksack-dpm
http://www.endicotts.co.uk/content/dutch-gen-2-c-sting-rucksack-dpm
They sell the (different) side pouches too.
This Rucksacks are very heavy too.
3400g
Here it is:
It is identic with the civil version.
But the pouch zippers changed the direction.
http://www.endicotts.co.uk/content/dutch-gen-1-c-sting-rucksack-dpm
http://www.endicotts.co.uk/content/dutch-gen-2-c-sting-rucksack-dpm
They sell the (different) side pouches too.
This Rucksacks are very heavy too.
3400g
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Yes, for canoeing and eventual for an evacuation that's probably the right stuff.
My rucksacks are also always ready to go, a summer and a winter version.
But just, because I am to lazy to surch for my stuff.
If an evacuation is possible in your area and you count with the option to use your car, even a few rucksacks are probably a good idea.
(One for essentials, one for Havanna Cigars, one for beer and one for the porno collection.)
;0)
My rucksacks are also always ready to go, a summer and a winter version.
But just, because I am to lazy to surch for my stuff.
If an evacuation is possible in your area and you count with the option to use your car, even a few rucksacks are probably a good idea.
(One for essentials, one for Havanna Cigars, one for beer and one for the porno collection.)
;0)
w00t
I'm glad I read this thread, after posting my question about PLCE.
The Belgian M97 rucksack looks like very similar to the British PLCE rucksacks, though I'm not sure if it's closer to the long or the short version, or if the two are compatible with each other. I've seen pictures of the two side pouches taken off the Belgian M97 and fitted to a yoke, to make a day sack.
Anyway, I found a German site, ASMC, that has two grades of this Belgian rucksack for sale, and plumped for the higher of the two. along with two copies of the Bundeswehr folding mats.
I had been hoping to avoid camo patterns, but I'm also a skinflint... though I like the look of the Snugpack and the Karrimor SF rucksacks, I wouldn't use one over 65L anything like often enough to justify paying over €80.
I'm glad I read this thread, after posting my question about PLCE.
The Belgian M97 rucksack looks like very similar to the British PLCE rucksacks, though I'm not sure if it's closer to the long or the short version, or if the two are compatible with each other. I've seen pictures of the two side pouches taken off the Belgian M97 and fitted to a yoke, to make a day sack.
Anyway, I found a German site, ASMC, that has two grades of this Belgian rucksack for sale, and plumped for the higher of the two. along with two copies of the Bundeswehr folding mats.
I had been hoping to avoid camo patterns, but I'm also a skinflint... though I like the look of the Snugpack and the Karrimor SF rucksacks, I wouldn't use one over 65L anything like often enough to justify paying over €80.
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The copy weights 700g, and is less tough than the original!
The original weights 425 g.
I prefere by far a used original Made in Germany over a new mat, Made in Nowhere.
https://www.asmc.com/Camping/Sleepi...swehr-German-Army-Folding-Sleeping-Pad-p.html
ASMC is a trusty shop, that sells used and new quality stuff, but it sells several cheap copies too. But they write it, what is what.
The original weights 425 g.
I prefere by far a used original Made in Germany over a new mat, Made in Nowhere.
https://www.asmc.com/Camping/Sleepi...swehr-German-Army-Folding-Sleeping-Pad-p.html
ASMC is a trusty shop, that sells used and new quality stuff, but it sells several cheap copies too. But they write it, what is what.
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My M97 rucksack turned up at work today, and I am well pleased with it. The two side pockets look like new, and main rucksack is in excellent condition, but the colours are more muted than the pockets.
Inside the lid (in what I think is the map pocket), there is an extra panel; quite rigid, with a chunky zip running along each long side, and three off looking kinds of fasteners on one face of the panel.
The two sleeping mats were in the box, too. They weigh 460g each.
I wonder if that panel is a yoke adapter. I removed the two side pockets, zipped them together, then zipped the outer zips of the pockets to that panel. This gives a space equivalent in size to another side pocket, but into which I can put my three-man tent and possibly a thin bedroll...
It'll soon be sunset, here... I'll try to remember tomorrow to take pictures of the two side pockets zipped to that panel.
Inside the lid (in what I think is the map pocket), there is an extra panel; quite rigid, with a chunky zip running along each long side, and three off looking kinds of fasteners on one face of the panel.
The two sleeping mats were in the box, too. They weigh 460g each.
I wonder if that panel is a yoke adapter. I removed the two side pockets, zipped them together, then zipped the outer zips of the pockets to that panel. This gives a space equivalent in size to another side pocket, but into which I can put my three-man tent and possibly a thin bedroll...
It'll soon be sunset, here... I'll try to remember tomorrow to take pictures of the two side pockets zipped to that panel.
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The extra panel can be zipped on one of the sides of the backpack. There exist some pouches that can then be fixed on the panel by using the fasteners. It is pretty much comparable to the systems of Berghaus and Karrimor.
To use the sidepacks as a daypack you need to zip them on to eachother (without any extra panel in between) and you need to attach two shoulderstraps (which I'm afraid are not included?).
To use the sidepacks as a daypack you need to zip them on to eachother (without any extra panel in between) and you need to attach two shoulderstraps (which I'm afraid are not included?).
Thanks for the info, Ruud. I initially tried zipping that panel in place of one of the side pockets, but then tried the idea I described above (yoke adapter).
Can you help me out, here, please?
I'm trying to figure out how to search for a yoke... I thought that "jug M97 Belgische leger" would find one, but no luck so far. And I can't for the life of me remember the French term either (it's not "joug", that's just for the agricultural term or as a figure of speech)... I have a niggling feeling that the word starts "bre...".
You might see that both sidepacks have attachmentpoints on the top and the bottom. You need to find a spare set of shoulderstraps which you can feed in the slots. The one on the picture is about the closest thing to the real deal I could find. Hope that makes any sense, my native language is dutch.
Note that the original straps have almost no padding so getting a pair of civilian straps is not a bad thing at all.
