Scottish air gun licence

[santaman2000]

"....The following are incidents in which children and young people have accessed air weapons and killed siblings, family members, friends or others.

In almost all cases the air weapon was accessed by children because the weapon and ammunition had been irresponsibly stored by an adult; a phenomena linked to the ‘boys toys’ culture surrounding these guns.

Opportunities exist for family members, friends and neighbours to intervene in the interests of crime prevention and public safety regarding irresponsible storage of, and unauthorised access to, air weapons by children.

(Ref. Section 46 Crime and Security Act 2010:- It is an offence for a person in possession of an air weapon to fail to take reasonable precautions to prevent someone under the age of 18 from gaining unauthorised access to it)

Rhys Johnson

Ten year old Rees was killed by a 12 year old child after being shot with an air weapon pellet while playing with a friend near his home in Llansamlet, Swansea on 27th September 2009.

Jonathan Cooke

Five year old Jonathan Cooke was killed by another child after being shot with an air weapon pellet while playing with several other children and an adult in a garden during a weekend camping holiday in Wiltshire in August 2009.

Sam Shaw

Fifteen year old Sam Shaw was killed by a young person after being shot with an air weapon pellet while playing in a garden with his brother and a friend in Hayes, West London in March 2009.

Rachel Davis

Eighteen year old Rachel Davis was killed by a friend after being shot with an air weapon pellet while socialising with friends in a flat in Bury, Greater Manchester, in December, 2008.

Rashid Ullah

Eighteen month old Rashid was killed by a five year old girl after being shot with an air weapon pellet in a Birmingham garden. His father had been shooting in the back garden and left the loaded weapon out there in September 2008.

Danny Marsh

Seventeen year old Danny Marsh was killed by a young person after being shot with an air weapon pellet when he and his cousin were in a garden shed at the home of his grandmother in Maesglas in November 2007

Mitchel Picken

Twelve year old Mitchel Picken was killed by a thirteen year old child after being shot with an air weapon pellet while playing at the home of a friend whose father, a licensed gun owner, had failed to store his gun safely enabling access to the gun by children ‘home alone’ in Staffordshire in August 2006

Andrew Morton

Two year old Andrew Morton was killed after being shot with an air weapon pellet fired from a window by a young sniper while he was being carried down the road by his cousin in Glasgow in March 2005.

Alex Cole

Twelve year old Alex Cole was killed by a fourteen year old child after being shot with an air weapon pellet while playing at the home of a friend where a loaded air weapon belonging to his friend's father had been left under a bed, enabling access to the gun by the children when ‘home alone’ in Doncaster in May 2005

Scott Heap

Eleven year old Scott Heap was killed by an eleven year old child after being shot with an air weapon pellet while playing with the weapon in a friend’s bedroom in Glasgow in October 2004.

Matthew Sheffield

Fourteen year old Matthew Sheffield was killed by a thirteen year old child after being shot with an air weapon pellet while playing with friends in a garden when ‘home alone’ in Stockton on Tees in April 2001.

George Atkinson

Thirteen year old George Atkinson was killed by another child after being shot with an air weapon pellet while playing with a cousin at the home of his mother’s sister near Mold in July 1999.

Margaret McEwan

Eight year old Margaret McEwan was killed after being shot with an air weapon pellet while playing with a cousin at the home of an aunt in Warwickshire in August 1995.

Danny Sondergaard

Fourteen year old Danny Sondergaard was killed by another child after being shot with an air weapon pellet while playing with his sister and friends at home in Kent in August 1994.

Matthew Fowkes

Ten year old Matthew Fowkes was killed after being shot with an air weapon pellet while playing in woods with his sister and brother while other people were shooting nearby in Hucknall, Nottinghamshire in 1989....

Tell me again that these aren't firearms.
Tell me again that a licence shouldn't be required for firearms.

I don't think you really can.

"Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill said: "We have a long-standing commitment to crack down on the misuse of guns, and a licensing scheme for airguns will help address the problems that these weapons can cause to individuals and communities in the wrong hands. Too much misery and harm has been caused.

"We are not banning air weapons outright but there has to be a legitimate use for them. We do not believe that there should be half a million unlicensed firearms in 21st century Scotland.

"We are not consulting on the principle of licensing; this will happen. While our primary concern is for public safety, we do not wish to penalise those who use air weapons responsibly and who can demonstrate a legitimate use for a gun such as sport shooting or pest contr....

So by theis post you acknowledge tht you already ave laws that are not accomplishing anything. Do you really believe another license would change that?

 

[Toddy]

Sorry SM2K but that's a typical NRA response. It's not relevant.

We know that there are issues, the goverment has chosen this way to deal with them.

The licence is a definitive. If you have one then you know why you have it and you know exactly what you have to do to keep it.
If you don't, then it's an offence and you risk prosecution.

It also curbs more eejits acquiring them; they used to be sold for a fiver at every carboot. Now, someone tells the police there's a gun for sale. Anyone could simply buy an airgun for a child not that long ago; they were even sold in catalogues....the kind that Mum's bought stuff from on commission....in among kid's toys

The world has moved on; maybe not always for the better; and airguns where the vast majority have neither need nor space to use safely, ought to be accountable.

As I said, to most folks here it's a total non issue, and many actually wholeheartedly approve of the government's actions in this case.

M




They need to be licenced just like other firearms. They already are in Northern Ireland.....tell me why not here ?

 

[British Red]

Tell me again that these aren't firearms.
Tell me again that a licence shouldn't be required for firearms.

I don't think you really can..

Tell me again how such a few deaths - the root cause of which (unsupervised access to airguns by minors) has already been addressed by legislation, is more of a risk than the 200 knife deaths a year. Why is such a tiny fraction of the knife deaths number more deserving of legislation?

I am certain that you can't.

 

[santaman2000]

Sorry SM2K but that's a typical NRA response. It's not relevant....

The licence is a definitive. If you have one then you know why you have it and you know exactly what you have to do to keep it.
If you don't, then it's an offence and you risk prosecution.

It also curbs more eejits acquiring them; they used to be sold for a fiver at every carboot.....

The fact that the scheme will likely have no real impact on the mischief/crime isn't relevant? Interesting concept/

Risk of prosecution? This is supposed to deter kids and idiots who by definition don't really think things out? Unlikely.

Driven the price up? Just who does this penalize or deter? Only responsible adults who earn their living. For the kids/idiots/criminals it's created a cash market to sell unlicensed arms.

 

[santaman2000]

" The following are incidents in which children and young people have accessed air weapons and killed siblings, family members, friends or others.

In almost all cases the air weapon was accessed by children because the weapon and ammunition had been irresponsibly stored by an adult; a phenomena linked to the ‘boys toys’ culture surrounding these guns......

A few kids are also injured or killed every year riding horses, ATVs and minibikes, or swimming, diving, etc; by that logic, they should also be licensed and restricted to 18 year olds only.

 

[Adze]

How many are killed using or by unlicensed bicycles each year? I haven't done the google research required, however I remain quite certain that more than 15 children have been killed either by using or by users of unlicensed bicycles. In my personal experience, two of my school friends were killed on unlicensed bicycles between 1983 and 1987. That these dangerous machines are currently unlicensed and no licence is required to operate them in public is an absolute traversty. The pain and distress caused to the families of victims of these unlicensed machines is beyond compare yet there is a substantial minority who demand the right to use them, own them and operate them in public without proper training or licensing.

 

[santaman2000]

Sorry SM2K but that's a typical NRA response.....

Thanks. I appreciate that

 

[FGYT]

out of interest are scotland going to put up and man police check points to england where scotish people can drive to and buy airguns face to face at an RFD who will check they are old enough to buy but not require a licence

and check english living pople who drive over the boarder to shoot airguns (BFTA has a scottish shoot in the national circuit) who do they apply to as its the county you live that issues and we will have no mechanisum so guess an international application to the scotish Embasy

 

[brambles]

"Figures released by the Scottish government in November showed the total number of firearms offences recorded in Scotland fell by a third in the past year, from 535 to 365.

Of these, almost half - 171 - involved air weapons."

That's why.

As someone with over 20 years in the criminal courts , the vast majority of the offences referred to do NOT involve what we know to be air rifles or pistols, but are idiots with softair guns running around scaring people into thinking they are real guns or "shooting" plastic pellets

171 people injured by idiots with air rifles

No mention at all of anyone being injured, just that offences were committed and as for that see the above.

 

[Toddy]

Do you know ? I'm rather relieved to hear that
Seriously, I am. I thought it horrendous that so many people and pets were injured by pellets. I've had one dug out of my ankle and that was bad enough.

Still doesn't make the issue go away though.

We need training and a licence to drive a car.....why should folks not need training and a licence to own and use an airgun?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Toddy]

Thanks. I appreciate that

Thought you might, but this side of the pond it's mostly considered along side the space nuts and the religious fundamentalists.

M

 

[santaman2000]

.....We need training and a licence to drive a car.....why should folks not need training and a licence to own and use an airgun?

cheers,
Toddy

Are we going to make that training available free in public schools the same way it is for driving?

 

[Toddy]

In the UK we pay for driving lessons. There is no normal school curriculum involved. It's a private arrangement with a driving school. Right enough you can just apply to sit the tests if you're confident you'll pass. Some kids are still taught mostly by parents, but not many.

M

 

[santaman2000]

Thought you might, but this side of the pond it's mostly considered along side the space nuts and the religious fundamentalists.

M

Judging from the posts here on the forum (and from ther British friends0 I'd say that opinion isn't as universal there as some might think. Religious fundamentalist? Again, thanks, I appreciate that

 

[Toddy]

No, it's not a universal opinion, but you'll find that it's only the gun lobby who don't consider the NRA to be nutcases.
Propaganda is to be critically reviewed, not taken as gospel.

See what I did there ?

M

 

[santaman2000]

In the UK we pay for driving lessons. There is no normal school curriculum involved. It's a private arrangement with a driving school. Right enough you can just apply to sit the tests if you're confident you'll pass. Some kids are still taught mostly by parents, but not many.

M

To be perfectly honest, most kids here already know how to drive years before they're old enough to attend the classes (age 15 or 16 for the classes) goes back to my earlier post about minibikes, go-carts, and ATVs (and tractors and pickups in the fields) The classes in school just allow for a cheaper insurance rate and an easy school credit.

 

[santaman2000]

No, it's not a universal opinion, but you'll find that it's only the gun lobby who don't consider the NRA to be nutcases....

Actually after the mass emotional outbursts subside, the majority of Americans generally agree with the NRA.

 

[santaman2000]

....Propaganda is to be critically reviewed, not taken as gospel.

See what I did there ?

M

In perfect agreement.

 

[Swallow]

Do you know ? I'm rather relieved to hear that
Seriously, I am. I thought it horrendous that so many people and pets were injured by pellets. I've had one dug out of my ankle and that was bad enough.

Still doesn't make the issue go away though.

We need training and a licence to drive a car.....why should folks not need training and a licence to own and use an airgun?

cheers,
Toddy

Because......

a car is way more complex than an airgun?

a car is way more lethal than an airgun?

you cannot make a car safe? (if it is in use it is "loaded")

deaths by car are most caused by people who are licensed and trained?

and then there's amazing array of dangerous sharp spinny things in B&Q you don't need a licence for either.

 

[mountainm]

Just because a majority believe in something it doesn't make it right or true.