Another one who didn't listen

[Toddy]

http://www.lochaber-news.co.uk/News/Blast-for-walkers-act-of-sheer-stupidity-09012013.htm

To quote Mike, it should be a Darwin


I think I get angrier because his stupidity risked the lives of other people to rescue him, when there is no shortage of good, clear advice.

It's one thing to have an accident, to get totally overwhelmed, or lost, but another entirely to do so without even basic equipment in the middle of Winter

cheers,
M

 

[WULF]

All i can do is shake my head!!

 

[Mesquite]

What an utter numpty...

People like that should be prosecuted for reckless endangerment of themselves and the people who rescue them.

 

[johnnytheboy]

I think the comments made by the team leader are completely out of order, there is no doubt its maybe the truth but thats not the way to handle such a situation!

 

[Shewie]

You've got to think big fines should be brought in for instances like this.

Glad he made it out okay

 

[copper_head]

How incredibly foolish, he was lucky to survive.

 

[Harvestman]

"Only two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe"
- Albert Einstein.

 

[Squidders]

Lucky to be alive confirmed.

I'm sure anyone can slip when climbing in the winter and hurt their leg and need rescuing though. We could say that any person who needs rescuing is foolish because obviously anyone who needs rescuing must have been unprepared - no?

So can we then say that mountain rescue people, whom I have massive respect for by the way, can call anyone out in the mountains a fool or an idiot or moron or anything else they like from their ivory tower?

It annoys me when anyone gets all judgemental... like mountain rescue workers who die trying to find and rescue people - should their own safety and the safety of their team be paramount, are those that die badly trained, poorly equipped or just ran out of luck? Ran out of luck like the guy who needed rescue in the link above maybe?

If you're out in the mountains you need luck, if everything could be done safely, few would bother. Everyone knows this and name calling makes nobody a better person.

My post is a contrary one to many but do not mistake it for a lack of respect for the rescue services - that would be wrong because I do respect anyone willing to go into the mountains, hills, sea or anywhere else in foul conditions. Especially to try and help another.

 

[copper_head]

I dont think anyone can deny that climbing mountains in winter (or at any time) has an element of danger involved, slipping and injuring a leg could happen to us all. But thats the reason we take precautions such as a torch (quoted as not having one in the article) and proper winter boots (the same). I think it is fair to say he was foolish, not because he got injured but because he didn't take the steps to protect himself and by proxy those who had to rescue him.

 

[boatman]

Yep! The outdoors is only for us who have never done anything stupid. Well I have such as in the sixties in the rain in the pitch black near Keswick when I slid neatly down a minor precipice . Muddy and bruised only so the penalty was to my slender student purse as I booked into a hotel and put bl...y sweetener instead of salt on my expensive breakfast the next day. I did admire the aplomb of the hotel when this shaggy mud creature turned up at their reception desk.

 

[Toddy]

The Mountain Rescue teams themselves are on record as saying that they don't want people fined, or billed, for their rescue. They would simply like people to actually *listen* to their advice on how to go out on the hills safely.

This fortunate young man either didn't listen, or somehow managed to totally avoid all mention of proper equipment for the conditions and the season.

Judgemental ? oh yes, in this instance I certainly am. As I said, an accident, misfortune, losing track of where you are, or biting off more than you can manage, isn't the issue; but how can anything more be done to get the message through about being properly dressed or equiped ? Even a £ store torch would have helped this fellow see ( and hopefully keep to) the path, and he didn't even have that with him.

It happens right across the country too, from the Grampians to Snowdonia. I am totally against restricting access, but maybe it's time for more of the old fashioned adverts like the Petunia ones about the Coast Guard that used to be put on tv before the Summer holidays.....have Winter holiday ones too ?

At least this time round the fellow is alive to learn from his experience though, not everyone's so lucky.

Toddy

 

[HillBill]

He also started his ascent with only 5 hours of daylight left.

I posted about this on natural bushcraft earlier this afternoon. Darwin award was a term i used aswell. I feel sorry for the human gene pool. Idiocy breeds idiocy unfortunately. Natural selection is not being allowed to do its thing.

In my opinion in cases like this, he should be responsible for the total cost of getting him back....every little bit of it. The MR teams should have a piece of paper with them....if they deem the bloke to be at fault, then he should have 2 choices, sign it and be responsible for ALL costs, or stay there and make his own way down. genuine accidents, with prepared people should be exempt, at the discretion of the MR teams.

 

[brambles]

I think the comments made by the team leader are completely out of order, there is no doubt its maybe the truth but thats not the way to handle such a situation!

"You can't handle the truth!"

 

[Squidders]

I bet more people suffer injury while winter climbing in proper winter boots than in trainers. OK so statistical manipulation aside, saying that torches and boots reduce the odds, what does it reduce the odds from and what does it reduce the odds to? What are acceptable odds for needing rescue?

I think the person in the article should have prepared better myself, I would have... but as I understand it he has made it up and was in a well trodden path when found... That to me sounds like he had good knowledge of the area (i.e. in exactly the right place) but no kit. the polar opposite of all the gear and no idea.

If you're overwhelmed, have a busted leg and lost on a mountain and you have all the right gear, you'll still get slammed on forums for being inexperienced or something similar.

I want to hear from a mountain rescue person who can confirm that they are told to risk their lives to rescue people, I want to see the line in the training book that says do your job in a risky way and take chances when trying to rescue people. Being in the hills is risky in its self I agree but these people are trained to do it safely. The same as those in the fire brigade who speed on public roads to get to a fire - it's risky in its self.

Why bang on about harsh fines and penalties? Why just let nature do its thing and clean up the bodies in the spring? If it were over 8000m thats what would happen. Where is it divine mandate that there must be a rescue and that people are forced out to get people, i'm sure the government created a department to form search and rescue teams around the country and that people signed on to do it - i'm certain that if everyone in the search and rescue team said "stuff this, the conditions are too bad and the team is at risk!" there would be no talk of huge fines.

We do the same when driving... anyone slower than us is a doddering moron and anyone faster is a stupid speed freak.

 

[Teepee]

:yikes:

Lucky Guy.

Must have been a quiet day on there, someone surely would have turned him back if they'd seen him in trainers.

 

[copper_head]

I dont think its about odds squidders more just common sense in this situation. Better ankle support and grip on the snow/ice and well see and be seen for the torch, but I didnt need to tell you that .

 

[Squidders]

By the way, I like to do high-ball boulder problems climbing 40+ feet with nothing but 3" of foam to "save" me - I do it because it's outright dangerous and that's what I need.

There is already enough safety in my life to last ten lifetimes

I drive a damn volvo and have an ergonomic desk.

On the subject of education, I agree with Toddy... Tell people about the dangers of doing these things. But offset that education against the numbers, how many die in the mountains in the winter each year and how many people die of heart disease from watching TV every day for 8 hours and how much should we be spending telling each group what to do?

There are no answers I think, it's fun to point at unlucky sods who nearly got away with it but it's not right.

 

[joejoe]

:yikes:

Lucky Guy.

Must have been a quiet day on there, someone surely would have turned him back if they'd seen him in trainers.

serios question who whould have the power to send him back

 

[georann]

serios question who whould have the power to send him back

Any sensible walker on the mountain could have advised him against it, but you are correct there is no one whole could actively stop him.

 

[Toddy]

They don't have the power to send him back, but they can bluntly tell him he's being a prize eejit.

Risk is part of being human. It's fun to push the boundaries, it's kind of inbuilt in us. Even the playgroup associations for infants clearly say that risk is not only an acceptable part of good play, but to some extent a to be encouraged part of good play.
When it comes to mountains though, a wee bit of forethought doesn't go amiss.

Personally I am incredibly grateful that there are people who are prepared to train and to call out when rescue is needed. My husband, sons, family and friends use the hills; they walk, climb, boulder.....as I said, I'm grateful that the emergency services are available, just in case sommat goes wrong.
I'd give anyone of those I love a flyting if they didn't go properly dressed for the conditions and seasons though.

To sound off about an eejit who did so....if it stops one other person doing this same ill prepared ascent, then yes, I'll post.
I haven't given the fellows name, or where he came from, on the forum; but the warning is still clear.

Ben Nevis can be a straightforward enough ascent, in Summer folks push beds up it for sponsorships, but in bad weather, and especially in Winter, that same path can become treacherous in moments. Short daylight hours don't help.

The Mountain rescue teams can only advise, I think the frustration this team leader showed is very understandable.
Even though the 'team' aspect, and their training, and their familiarity with their area, does minimise their risks, it's still not some carefree jaunt for them.

Toddy