what are the rules?

[ateallthepies]

It's a difficult situation depending on who you are.

As a person looking for places to go and camp or indeed wander around I can feel very angry, envious and dismayed depending on where I am (mentally) at the time. It feels like there are people who own vast swages of our land (by whatever past deed) and don't allow any peasants on it to enjoy. Also common land is enforced with rules and regulations to deter scum (with no effect) and us law abiding folk (with better effect) to only be present and not enjoy camping or fire rights etc...

It winds me up that this small island with 64 million people is not opened up more for us to enjoy. There is still plenty of space for all if not for privacy laws.

However, on the land owner's point of view they don't like to see people ruin the land and use it without thought which I can respect. There will always be scum who treat their immediate environment as a waste bin but I dismay at the attempts at reducing this that seem to have little effect.

I take a view on land access that would probably get me banned from here so wont go into that but do feel more land should be made available for us all to enjoy.

Steve.

 

[spandit]

Arson is the burning of someone elses propity dead wood is not the propity of the landowner it is the propity of the people and you are aloud to collect dead wood off the forest floor by common law.

I think this is outdated/incorrect. If I owned woodland & had cut a load of firewood & somebody nicked it, that would be theft.

 

[EdS]

fallen wood is legally the property of the land owner - people have been prosecuted for it. You have never been allowed to collect dead wood under common law -- common law deals with torts by the way, it doesn't give you any "rights".

Certain commoners have the long help right to collect sticks from Common Land ie New Forest etc..

Stickers used to be people authorised to collect sticks (not logs or lumber) for use of the locals - this was at the land owners discretion and they usually made some profit on it.

 

[Ex-member PaganBushcraft]

You have missunderstud me If you have cut the wood and staked it up. It is clearly yours it is only fallen dead wood on the forest floor that the people have a right too. twigs branches or standing dead wood. Wood that has been cut or feld is the propity of the landowner. and as I said common law can not be outdated as it can not be changed by parliment or overturned by them that would be unlawful.

I think this is outdated/incorrect. If I owned woodland & had cut a load of firewood & somebody nicked it, that would be theft.

 

[Ex-member PaganBushcraft]

You might have something there. I will look into this more deeply It might be where I grow up that has given me this impretion

fallen wood is legally the property of the land owner - people have been prosecuted for it. You have never been allowed to collect dead wood under common law -- common law deals with torts by the way, it doesn't give you any "rights".

Certain commoners have the long help right to collect sticks from Common Land ie New Forest etc..

Stickers used to be people authorised to collect sticks (not logs or lumber) for use of the locals - this was at the land owners discretion and they usually made some profit on it.

 

[rik_uk3]

IF, you are going to risk illegal camping don't make matters worse by having a fire, even in a hobo stove. Take a little gas cooker and if and when you get caught its simpler to pack up and move on.

Somebody owns the land you are trespassing on so if caught camping without permission don't moan about it. If I owned land I'd not take kindly to finding people pitching up where they liked without my say so.

http://www.campfiresburning.org/sites.php

People go on about their ethical and moral rights to camp and burn wood but lets bear in mind its not their land, its not their wood, its the land owners who also have rights.

 

[spandit]

People tend to think of large tracts of private land as public. Put yourself in the situation of camping in someone else's back garden - I don't think the law makes a distinction between them, it's just you're less likely to get caught in a large wood.

As mentioned, stick to a stove & be ready to plead ignorance!

 

[Thenihilist]

Me an a friend were taking a walk between towns the other day and it began to rain so we ducked into a small wood, rigged the tarp and lit a fire to dry ourselves out.

The joys of being Scottish haha

 

[spandit]

The joys of being Scottish haha

Yes, but it seldom rains down South...

 

[gliderrider]

I Agree with rik, Common law or not, if you are camping without permission dont make matters worse by setting up a fire.

Also, it is against the bylaws for wild camping and open fires in certain national parks, I know this is true in the peak district, but I'm not sure for certain on what others.

In short, camping on private land without permission is trespassing and on open access land wild camping is prohibited under Schedule 2 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, a recent petition to the Government to address this gave the following response:

“This Government appreciates the potential benefits of wild camping in England and its attractiveness to campers who already have the opportunity to camp in the wild in Scotland.

The Land Reform Act in Scotland allows for wild camping, but the land issues and the legislation in England are somewhat different. The introduction of wild camping in England would be a controversial issue, which would require both significant consultation and legislative change.

On open access land wild camping is prohibited under Schedule 2 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, which lists all restricted activities. Therefore, new Regulations would be required to exclude wild camping as a restricted activity. Any change to the current rules on wild camping in National Parks and Ministry of Defence land would require new primary legislation.

The Government has no plans to allocate the necessary resources to consider proposals for such legislation at present, and is concentrating on following up the successful introduction of 750,000 hectares of open access land with new legislation on access to the coast in the Marine Bill Act which is currently going through Parliament.”

Source – Legalise Wild Camping petition in England and Wales

taken from http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52767

I'd be interested to find out if anyone has used common law as a deffence in court and gotten away with it.

 

[EdS]

same as picking wild fruit and mushrooms -- form a striict legal point they belong to the land owner.
While no body generally objects to the colelction of hedge row fruit but...

There have been a couple of cases of people get done for theft when picking fungi - mostly down to wild mushrooms having some value & the quantity cetain people where pciking, clearly not jus for home use. But this does set precedance and highlight the law as written.

In reallity, just what you need and no damage and most landowners are not bothered, but it only take upsetting the wrong one to be on the receiving end of more than an earful of angery words

 

[blacktimberwolf]

hi everyone I need some help with this,
I live in epsom surrey and all I want to do is go into a woodland set my hammock and tarp up and have a little fire. can anyone help me where to go or where I should be looking or if I need permission how do I go about getting it? anywhere arround the southeast is good for me, I was also thinking about new forest but i dont know what the rules are there for camping in the woods with a fire.




.

I would be very grateful if anyone can steer me in the right direction.

Since this thread is still going on I thought i'll add my 2 pennies worth.

I have been caught on a number of occasions, camping on private land in the past & been faced with eiher the land owner or police.......after the usual niceties & the promise to move on either straight away or at first light (if I was the evening) things passed very well. .......I was just pitching a tent & no fires..........but it was a different era, bushcraft hadn't yet been invented & the only people walking about with rucksacks on their backs were tramps, drop outs & nutters, ...... Attitude is very important, even today, if you're polite there's no reason why things should degenerate.
As for the new forest, I have been caught camping there too. t'was a sort of game keeper that found me, but the ol' boy was so gentle & wise, he just informed me that I couldn't camp here, then left it at that ......he knew I was still camping there ( for 5 days) but didn't take the matter any further.........I saw him before leaving & thanked him.

No wild camping allowed in the New forest & of course NO fires.

If you're going to wild camp, that is pitch a tent or tarp without permission, than be bloody discret about it, & no fires......as hard as it is for some people to believe, you can camp & actually have fun without lighting a single fire.

 

[Ex-member PaganBushcraft]

If you go on youtube and look up Freeman on the land there are two or three cases also Goggle Freeman on the land I think it is F.M.O.T.L.com Common law in action.

I Agree with rik, Common law or not, if you are camping without permission dont make matters worse by setting up a fire.

Also, it is against the bylaws for wild camping and open fires in certain national parks, I know this is true in the peak district, but I'm not sure for certain on what others.


taken from http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52767

I'd be interested to find out if anyone has used common law as a deffence in court and gotten away with it.

 

[Gotte]

I have an anarchist streak in me which says anyone who owns that amount of land won't miss a little bit of it for the night. I also have a native streak in me which says, if you occupy that bit of land treat it with respect, and a pragmatic streak which says take a little stove and keep it discrete, but should the worst happen and the bailiff arrive, be reasonable, but if they aren't reasonable, and treat you like a peasant, don't back down. Let them take you to court. I imagine if you've been discrete and respectful and caused no damage, they'll be the ones incurring the wrath of the judge (unless, of course, he's brother of the landowner - always a possibility in the surfdom which is England).

 

[boatman]

I am confused about not wild camping in the Peak District. Admittedly this was back in the sixties but we could not have done the trek we did if we hadn't wild camped. Do people really take a taxi back to Sheffield or to a legal camp every evening?