tarp knot

[tommy the cat]

Well I know I am gonna sound thick but I need help !!!!!!!
http://www.outdooridiots.com/features/200606/pitchingatarp/pitchingatarp4.asp
Got the first slip knot sorted but get stuck on the taut line, get as far as the second bite and dont understand which way the bite is pulled through the first bite?
Also which ever way I try it when I push the knot towards the tree the slack that was held in my right hand seems to be taken up thus slackening the tarp line?
It seems to me that the knot needs to be pushed away from the tree in order to keep the ridge line tight!!! Its slowly driving me mad! Sorry about being thick but I am a newbie.
Tommy

 

[Eric_Methven]

I can only suggest using a prusik knot to take up the slack. It's what i use and it works every time. The prusik knot is a sliding friction knot. It moves freely on the line but grips tight when under tension. It was developed as a means of self rescue from cravasses. You slide it up the rope, then put your weight on it and it grips, then you slide another further up the rope and it grips. When you take your weight off the first one, you can slide it up the rope again, and so on until you're out of the cravass. The same knot can be used for tensioning tarp lines, tightening rope bridges and a myriad of other bushcrafty uses.

http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/prusik.htm

Eric

 

[tommy the cat]

Thanks for that Eric . I intend to use the prussic knot as in the article to pull taut the tarp but was really after tightening the ridge line from tree to tree. Actually its more the fact I dont seem to be able to it the way they say in the article thtsa pi***** me off!!!!
Ta Tommy

 

[dommyracer]

Aye, a prussic won't help you tie this knot but good for keeping your tarp tight along its ridge.

I had trouble with this tensioning knot when I started trying to tie it.
The secret is to make sure you've got plenty of tension on it and tie it as close to the tree as possible (much closer than in the pice on that site.

I will try and explain this as best I can.

Once you have passed the rope around the tree, then doubled it back to get the tension, the bit you have pulled around goes under the ridge line and forms a triangle.

Make a loop and pass this down through the top triangle, in the top and out of the bottom. Pull it tight and you will now have a loop hanging down.

Now pass another loop down through this loop and pull it tight.

Its a bit hard to explain, there's a good pic on page 133 of Ray's Bushcraft book.

 

[Goose]

Don't worry too much about the knot being right! Use what works, it sounds like you have a working knowledge of knots so you should make something work
I go back around the tree to use up any slack and it just takes a slip knot to hold the end, think I use a different one every time depending on what cordage I have left and whether I am watching what I am doing! The main trick is to take almost a turn round the tree then go back around,keeping it tight as you go, like in the photo you link to, then the more turns round the tree the less stable your knot needs to be.
edit;
After a second look at the pics it seems to be tied for the picture and wouldn't actually work , just tie a slip knot through the bit around the tree, there should be enough space to get the rope through,just.

 

[falcon]

I've started using one of the variants of a Wagoner's Hitch (or Trucker's Knot ) for the second knot and you can get your ridgeline as taut as a violin string. Given that you're working sometimes at or above head height, the version promoted by Mors Kochanski is the easiest to tie in these circumstances. Sorry I can't find a link to demo this but it's shown in his DVD's......

 

[Tadpole]

I've started using one of the variants of a Wagoner's Hitch (or Trucker's Knot ) for the second knot and you can get your ridgeline as taut as a violin string. Given that you're working sometimes at or above head height, the version promoted by Mors Kochanski is the easiest to tie in these circumstances. Sorry I can't find a link to demo this but it's shown in his DVD's......

truckers knot

 

[falcon]

Nice one mate.....that's the "Mors" version :You_Rock_

 

[dommyracer]

I've tried the trucker's hitch, but prefer the other one. I found the trucker's tricky to untie, particularly if it got wet. The other one can be untied with a tug on the working end,

 

[DavidW]

Tommy,

I think you are correct that the instructions for tying the taut hitch as shown are not as clear as they could be. Following the instructions and pictures given with the white line there is just no way that I could end up with a knot that looks like the final knot shown with the yellow line.

That being said - I think the key in their instructions is that the the tarp line is to be held tight after the clockwise pass around the tree and is not tightened any more by tying the taught hitch knot and sliding it toward the tree. In other words , the knot shown is only to stop the slankening of the tarp line ( or ridge line ) tension already pulled on the line.

The last sentence in the intoductory paragraph states that the ridge line ( or tarp line ) is to remain taught from that point onwards. So it , the ridge line , is not tightened any more by sliding the yet to be tied knot toward the tree. Thus this knot appears to only be useful in preventing the loss of line tension already pulled on the ridge line.

The bights put into the knot appear to me to be only useful to make this a slip knot to be easily untied by pulling on the free end when you want to untie it. Also note that the instructions state that the knot needs to be tighter to the tree than shown in the pictures, which I think is the second key to indicating that this knot is only intended to hold the tension already pulled on the ridge line and not to adjust it tighter by sliding the tied knot.

I think if you think about this knot with out the bights or loops tied around the tarp line with the free end you will see that basically you take the ridge line anti clockwise around the tree, put a bight around the tarp line , and go back around the tree in the clockwise direction and pull the desired amount of tension on the ridge line and hold it taught from that point onward. Then - if you leave out the double bight or loops tied with the free end all they are really doing is tying a half hitch with the free end around the taught tarp line and pushing it up tight against the bight of line which first crossed over the ridge line and then making an overly complicated slip knot to hold tension . Thus I think it is only a tension holding knot with somewhat complicated quick release slip knot to hold it all together.

I think if you want to use their technique the whole thing would be simplier by just making the double pass around the tree, put a half hitch around the ridge line with the free end and snug it up and then tie a second half hitch around the tarp line with a loop to make it a slip knot to be easily untied when finished. But in the end I think there are easier or better ways to tie a taught ridgeline.

Anyway , that's all I could get out of the instructions playing around with a bit of line around a a chair back post and trying to follow the instructions. Perhaps I am still getting it wrong as I could not get a knot to look like the knot in the yellow line which appears to have a half hitch tied with the free end just after the reversed pass around the tree which is crossing over the hanging down loop.

For my own use , I find the best way is to just take the ridge line once around the tree. Go back a few feet from the tree and put a trucker's loop in the ridge line. ( sort of a over hand knot tied on the bight leaving a loop pointed toward the tree, the artillery knot and figure 8 loop work well too ) pass the free end through this loop and pull the ridge line tight by pulling the free end back toward the tree. Then just tie a looped half hitch with the free end, tied with a loop to make it a quick release slip knot. This tie off slip knot can be tied either around only the line coming back from the tree toward the tarp or tied around both lines, ie the line going to the tree ( the tarp line ) and around the returning line together. This method is taught by Cliff Jacobson in his Forgotten Skills dvd. Is simple to tie and adjust again later if needed.

You might find these pages useful
http://www.netknots.com/html/outdoor_knots.html
http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm
http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/inlinefigure8loop.htm

Best regards,

David

 

[tommy the cat]

Well thanks for all the replies guys, I'm afraid you will get plenty more daft questions from me as A, I am new to this B, I don't care if people laugh!!
I have been camping (and more recently Vw camping) for some time but really want to do more walking and connect a bit more with nature( )
I am not very familiar with knots apart from fig 8 from doing a bit of indoor climbing ( untill they closed the wall down) but willing to learn. In all fairness to the guys on the site the instruction was very good untill the end where it gets a bit confused. I dont think that (as mentioned) it is to tighten the ridge line more but useful as a quick knot to perform and undo. I really wanted a knot that filled that criteria so if I remember right the truckers knot was a bit of a bitch? I will now go and look at the links. Thanks again Tommy
Just looked at the animated truckers flipping nora I hope I can slow that down!!!

 

[falcon]

For my own use , I find the best way is to just take the ridge line once around the tree. Go back a few feet from the tree and put a trucker's loop in the ridge line. ( sort of a over hand knot tied on the bight leaving a loop pointed toward the tree, the artillery knot and figure 8 loop work well too ) pass the free end through this loop and pull the ridge line tight by pulling the free end back toward the tree. Then just tie a looped half hitch with the free end, tied with a loop to make it a quick release slip knot. This tie off slip knot can be tied either around only the line coming back from the tree toward the tarp or tied around both lines, ie the line going to the tree ( the tarp line ) and around the returning line together. This method is taught by Cliff Jacobson in his Forgotten Skills dvd. Is simple to tie and adjust again later if needed.

You might find these pages useful
http://www.netknots.com/html/outdoor_knots.html
http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm
http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/inlinefigure8loop.htm

Best regards,

David

Yes...that's how I use the Trucker's hitch and tie it off by doubling the working end, then tieing off with two half hitches around both lines. Doubling makes it easier to untie if wet, which is also a problem with the original ridgeline knot. It's very effective...