Shoot it or watch it part 2

[JonnyP]

After all the very opinionated remarks on the first squirrel poll, which pulled me one way and then the other, I thought I would do another, this time the Magpie. I find them highly intelligent and I love their chattering. But again there are a lot around and they take young birds out of nests. I once saw one in a trap that was used to catch others, when I turned to leave it tapped its beak on the cage, I turned round and saw it looking at me, I turned away again and the bird tapped again. I think it was saying, don't go, let me out you muppet. I wanted to oblige. I found out that after 30 birds were caught in about 2 weeks this bird was given its freedom which I thought was nice..............Jon

 

[Goose]

I'm not sure on this one, I have heard corvids (including magpies I beleive) taste bloody awful, they are a native species(I beleive) so no reason to wipe them out. But there have been an awful lot more magpies around lately with far fewer garden birds, so there is a reason for keeping numbers down.
The disappearance of garden birds and the upsurge in magpies I think goes back to some rule change about trapping/shooting?
But there has been an upsurge at the same time in hawks and owls which I think is a good thing, unless numbers go out of control.


So I dunno controlled maybe, hunted to extinction no.

 

[Longstrider]

I'll stick my neck out on this one. I've voted "Just shoot it", and for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I regard magpies as pests, I was taught this at an early age and don't realistically think I'll ever change my mind on the matter. They are nest robbers, chick takers and scavengers. The only part of that I don't dislike them for per say is the scavenging. The reasons there are so many of the damned things about these days are mans fault, I agree, but that will never endear me to them. Man has become increasingly wasteful of foodstuffs. What with litter in the streets and the like as well as land-fill sites, these birds have little problem obtaining more food from us than they have ever been able to do in the past. As with any species, as the available food increases, so do the breeding rate and the survival rate, leading to a population increase. The magpie has become more "urbanised", just like foxes have, to cash in on the food we as a race leave lying about for them, and this leads to more and more people having them in their neighborhood.
I realise that there would be a lot of this food left lying around to encourage even more disagreeable beasties such as rats if the magpies did not eat it, but that does not mean they are OK in my book.
Another reason the magpies have it easier these days is that they are, in general, not trapped and shot like they were in years past. Far less of the countryside is managed for shooting sports than in the past, resulting in fewer gamekeepers working less land. This alone would have resulted in the magpie numbers increasing.
I agree with what Goose says though. Firstly, all corvids taste like ****. Secondly, whilst I am in favour of shooting the things to control their numbers, I would not want to see them completely eliminated. Each native species has a place in our environment, but due to mans wastefulness the numbers of these birds has increased beyond what I see as an acceptable level. The damage they do the songbird population is vast, so just like rats, I think they ought to have their numbers controlled.

 

[pumbaa]

As an airgun hunter magpies come under the remit of vermin that can be shoot purely for sport . Having said that , the magpie is a bird that is surrounded by superstition . So i wouldnt shoot it . Not really sure why , it just doesnt feel right too ! Rats on the other hand would get smacked upside the ear hole with a lump of lead for sure !
Pumbaa

 

[Ogri the trog]

Longstrider,
There must be an echo on this site as you've mirrored my thoughts exactly.

Just shoot it, They are real devils come lambing time, second only to crows.

Ogri the trog

 

[tomtom]

dam it i didnt read the thread before voteing (though it was squrills again).. i wouldnt shoot it unless they were proven to be in such high numbers in a area due to lack of preditors that they were doing serious damage, i dont think this is often the case.

so i would have voted 'watch it' if i hadnt been so hasty (can a mod change me!?) i quite like them, they are characterful and i always enjoy seeing what they are up to!

 

[elma]

I'm with you there tomtom shoot it to maintain the balance, other than that watch it

Ian

 

[Greywolf]

'tis the devil's bird, as a drop o' blood from Auld Nick hi'sen is upon its tongue.

Shoot it, because Ive seen them decimate the songbirds by robbing their nests and killing the fledgelings as they leave what nests they missed. Bring the numbers down to a more natural size, then I can watch them



Greywolf

 

[Buckshot]

I'm not sure on this one, I have heard corvids (including magpies I beleive) taste bloody awful, .

Actually Rooks taste great. In fact rook pie was one of the great mainstays in spring untill recently.
My father in law used to talk about wheeling his bicycle round the village laden with braces of rook selling them to all the house wives to make a few pennies.
Traditionally, they're shot on the 12th May because the young rooks are out of the nest but not yet able to fly very well. These are called 'branchers' as they jump from branch to branch !
Try some if you can - you'll be surprised !!!

can a mod change me!?)

Done - although your name has gone I'm afraid you are in the numbers

Cheers

Mark

 

[stovie]

......The damage they do the songbird population is vast, ..

I'd be interested in the figures surrounding this claim...don't suppose it comes anywhere near the direct damage that man does to our indigenous flora and flauna, and so indirectly decimating the songbird population.

Perhaps the poll should be "shoot it or watch it....Man"

 

[Pappa]

I'm not a great fan of magpie's but as has been said, they are after all native. If it was crows or ravens, I'd be on their side hands down. They look at you like they know. There's definitely some real intelligence inside those little heads and I respect them for that, even if they can be a nasty bunch at times.

 

[Jack]

Well chaps.

I think you are all missing the point here. I think we are used to asking yes and no questions…………do we want to shoot magpies, yes or no? It is rather more profound than that.

Shouldn’t the question be, “why do I feel the I need to shoot a Magpie?” the answer usually would be, “actually I don’t know” if people were being honest. This mentality is so frustrating to see in the countryside and unfortunately it never seems to go away, the argument about raiding nests is old and boring and full of holes. No one ever seems to ask the basic question of “ so what difference does that make on the bird population?” again the answer would usually be “actually I don’t know” this happens because people believe what they have been told and usually go with the consensus. If you have seen a Magpie in a Larson trap then I am sure we would all view things in s different light.


How many people do you know have ever said, “ oh I just love the sound of that the reed warbler or that tree creeper…………..I would have a guess and say, not many! Can most people tell what species of bird they have in their garden? Again I would doubt it. The biggest threat to song birds are, believe it or not, are humans, the wonderful job that the ‘marketing boys’ have done in making the whole country rush out and by hundreds of thousands of tonnes of bird seed and nuts each winter is unbelievable.

What this has done is to improve the survival rate of the bird population which in turn has increased the birth rate. You have now upset the balance of nature and who gets the blame? Nature itself! I hope many people understand the predator – prey relationship, well this is exactly what is happening here and this time round it is the Magpie that is getting the blame, you hear that same argument about cats and that wonderful bird the Sparrowhawk also gets his fair share of the blame (depending on what is and what isn’t in favour that month). Remember, every action has a reaction. Sparrowhawks are a marvel of nature.

It always amazes me that us humans, cannot adore nature for what it is, it is life in it’s purist sense. To understand nature, you first have to understand and accept, the brutality of nature. You will also quite often hear people call certain animals ‘dumb’ for ever reason they choose, i.e. that ‘dumb dog’ or that ‘dumb chicken’ my answer – ok, lets put you in their natural environment and lets sit back and watch or survives and who dies…………now who is the dumb animal?!


If people feel they need to persecute an animal then take it from me, you are looking at the wrong one – we should be focusing our efforts on Deer. We have more deer in our countryside now then we have done for the last thousand. Deer are destroying the very heart of our ancient woodlands and we are standing by and watching it, these animals are eating the bottom out of woods and they are destroying historical features. Our woodlands have evolved over a thousand years and the plant life that is associated with them have evolved along with them and they are not used to heavy browsing, they evolved in time when our woodlands weren’t full of deer. Fallow will eat ash instead of hazel and roe are the other way round. I have seen many hazel coppices turned into ash woodland because roe have browsed the hazel so hard and I have ash woods turn into hazel woods as the fallows have hit the ash so hard. They, themselves are responsible for changing the shape and by association the eco systems of our historic, beloved countryside………….again another cock up from man, we may one day learn.

We have hundreds of thousands of miles of hedge rows in the UK and millions of acres of woodlands, are people telling me that the Magpie and the other guilty members can make the slightest impact on song birds, I stand to be corrected - but I think not!

 

[Longstrider]

Stovie and Jack, I've seen with my own eyes the difference magpies can make to an areas songbird population. I cannot quote figures as I tend to see and hear birds rather than count them, but the presence of a local magpie family will, without fail, diminish the number of smaller bird species in that area quite dramatically. As I stated earlier, I realise that the reason for the population explosion of magpies is a man-caused thing, but that does not mean that I feel we should not control their numbers. I'll wager that there would actually be far fewer rats in the world than there are if man were not providing them with their food (and living quarters in most cases)in one way or another, but does that mean that as we are to blame for their numbers we should learn to live and let live with them? I think not.
As for deer, I shoot them too. Not only do I realise that their numbers need to be kept in check, but they taste a darned sight better than any ruddy magpie or rook ever did!

 

[JonnyP]

I once watched a pair of long tailed tits (my favorite small bird) building a nest, they make beautiful nests,lined with feathers. Anyway the nest was raided by magpies (witnessed). Saying this I do not feel bad about the magpie even though I was sad it happened to a nest I was watching. Nature is cruel.

You may of noticed I have not yet voted on my own polls. I love nature watching, but on the other hand, if a couple of mates said come on Jon were going squirrel shooting or magpie or ???? I would probably go because something down deep in me loves to hunt even just for sport, though this rarely happens. I wanted to hear other peoples views, and boy did I get some................Jon

 

[stevo]

Short and sweet.

They are native so belong, but their numbers are on an incredible high........Knowing of their habits asks questions of the damage they may induce on other bird species numbers, so while I ticked shoot it, I think I would like more empirical reserach into the actual damage, and not merely speculation.

stevo

 

[stovie]

.......As for deer, I shoot them too. Not only do I realise that their numbers need to be kept in check, but they taste a darned sight better than any ruddy magpie or rook ever did!

Can't argue with that one...rather shoot and eat deer anyday.

Interestingly (or not) when I was in Turkey 5 years ago, I remember seeing a "tiding/murder/charm" (take your pick of collective term) of almost countless numbers of magpies. Everywhere I wandered, out of built up areas, they were as common as crows and rooks over here. Now I don't know nearly enough about Turkish fauna to be able to comment on their effect on indigenous songbirds (if any), but it would be interesting to find out. Anyone able to comment...?

 

[Platypus]

It always saddens me to hear people suggesting that because man has caused a problem in nature, he must actively DO something about it.

It was by our intervention that the screw-up occured, just what the hell do you think we are going to achieve by intervening some more?

It has been shown time and time again that we are likely to do more harm than good. Cane toad anyone?

Just for interest it would be good to see how many people who want to shoot an animal for control purposes also shoot for sport. Self justification perhaps? As it happens I'm not against culling or shooting, but I would prefer we all owned up to the REAL reason we do things rather than making excuses.

 

[Klenchblaize]

If we agree that it needs to be done, even if such results from man's sometimes rather confused and pompouse take on the countryside, then please let us move on to the really meaty question that is why must it be I that pulls the trigger. Only when people who shoot live quarry (hunters) face up to this fundemental question and become honest with both themselves and their opponents will the battle be trully joined

Put another way, if I'm weary of listening to hunters justify their passion on a "it has to be done" ticket, rather than admit that the joy of hunting includes not only pitting one's wits against a creature but also extinguishing a life, then what must the enemies of hunting make of such a less than fully formed argument?

Notwithstanding the undeniable element of class envy that was so evident throughout the campaign to ban fox hunting in England, I am totally convinced that had someone stood up and said "well actually I don't give a ***** what damge the fox does - I simply enjoy the sport", such would have been of far geater impact and pertinence than waffling on about minimal rural job loses. My view only of course.

Yes, it may well be there are those who can never enter a "Third Meadow" of consciousness that would enable an articulate voice being given to their 'need', but this should not stop us from trying at every oppertunity.

I hunt and the day I may no longer walk into a wood with a rifle after magpie or deer will be the day I see little point of being on this planet. I frankly don't care if corvides need to be culled or not I simply enjoy hunting them for what it retuns to me in soul food.

Cheers

K

 

[gregorach]

And what about the excitement and satisfaction of hunting the most dangerous and cunning prey of all - man? "I do it because I like it" is not a convincing moral argument. Still, I admire your candor.

 

[monkey_pork]

Err, this is going just a bit OT perhaps, and it's in no way at all advocating a cull (they are a protected species anyway of course), nor posted to be inflamatory, but what about the damage to songbirds from the aptly named sparrowhawk ?

My Aunt had a feeding station hit every single day by a sparrowhawk ...
We've moved it a bit now, which has helped, but the small birds know that the Accipiter is out there, and are observably much less numerous than they had been.