Scotland A Testing Ground Again!

[Toddy]

Actually that's a faction.
The death rates are higher elsewhere for that cause. The problem with statistics is that they are conflated; misunderstood and misused.
Death from those who drink themselves (poison, kill liver, etc.,) are pretty much as the UK average....but, the violence that the Buckie and the white lightening drinkers cause leads to other deaths that get added into the figures.

A bit like the woman who presents at A&E with a cut finger from a moment of carelessness peeling spuds, gets added into the knives issue

Panic alarms only work if there's someone to come to the rescue in a timely fashion. There aren't enough police to do this effectively for most. Imagine how much further they'll be stretched because a tagged person decided to have the drink anyway ?
Among those whose immediate 'culture' is that of the bevvy and their bevvy mates, it won't make a blind bit of difference.

Toddy

 

[Maggot]

Best not bother trying to do anything then. Re-build the wall, vote for independence and all the very best of luck.

 

[Toddy]

:huh?:

That just doesn't follow Maggot. We're discussing the leg tags, the drinking culture of a subsection of society, the unhelpfulness of the monks..... where the hang does politics come into it ?
Besides, we don't do politics here.

Toddy

 

[santaman2000]

...Panic alarms only work if there's someone to come to the rescue in a timely fashion. There aren't enough police to do this effectively for most. Imagine how much further they'll be stretched because a tagged person decided to have the drink anyway?...Toddy

I said I'd never heard of the devise before and that's true. However I'd imagine that such an arrangement would likely be offered as a type of probation; a treatment program in lieu of a prison sentence if you will. If so then any violation would likely/logically result in said treatment program/probation being revoked and the offender remanded to serve the original prison sentence.

 

[Maggot]

Maybe we could petition the Scottish parliament to bring in a Buckfast tax to pay something towards all the damages ? that however would apparantly, "greatly affect our business in an unfair manner"....reported quote from one of the brewing brothers.

Toddy

"Besides, we don't do politics here."

Toddy[/QUOTE]

Now, there's a thing.

The tag though, I imagine would be used exactly as Santaman described. Just like with Lyndsey Lohan I believe. The offender is told not to drink, if they do they breach the rules and get bumped into nick. Seems sensible to me.

 

[northumbrian]

Best not bother trying to do anything then. Re-build the wall, vote for independence and all the very best of luck.

can us border reiver's revert back to our old lands then ?:AR15firin

 

[Maggot]

can us border reiver's revert back to our old lands then ?:AR15firin

Feel free. We'll miss the night clubs though

 

[Opal]

Feel free. We'll miss the night clubs though

Didn't realise the pure beauty we have here in England.

 

[Toddy]

"Besides, we don't do politics here."

Toddy

That's not politics, that's government. Not the partisan bickering and bitching that causes disputes. We've settled that one and it's in place.

Toddy

 

[Toddy]

Maggot you're British ? I don't get the nightclubs thing then, unless you just wanted to show gratuitous shots of females en deshabillé I don't get the reivers reference in the latter set

The youtube link is being removed as reported as unsuitable.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Bushwhacker]

I struggle to see how the monks can be blamed when it's more the fault of the shopkeepers stocking and selling the stuff.

 

[Maggot]

That's not politics, that's government. Not the partisan bickering and bitching that causes disputes. We've settled that one and it's in place.

Toddy

From the Oxford English Dictionary.

"Politics. The art or science of Government"

Governments are made up of Politicians, Politicians make up Governments, they are as intertwined as the stripes in toothpaste.

So, how do you mention one, and I mention one, but yours is fine and mine is a problem?

Yes, I am British, is that in anyway relevant to the conversation?

 

[Toddy]

Maggot you don't do subtle, do you ? or see the calm give and take of a conversation.

The British bit was because the youtube thing was slating 'British' not northern folks.

THe Scottish government bit was brought up as an example of how far this issue affects local societies up here, and that despite that level of approach the monks are still stubbornly refusing to acknowledge that there is any problem that they could ameliorate.


Bushwacker the shops stock what will sell. The shopkeepers too were part of the approach to the monks that asked for the bottles to be changed.

cheers,
M

 

[Maggot]

Subtle, nah. No point, I have tried subtle, gentle ribbing of our Northern Neighbours, and our Stateside bretheren and it nearly got me banned. So I suggested a rather more seriously made point about a widespread sociological problem involving drink and poor diet generally in Scotland, and I was told I was political, which is banned.

The Youtube clip, well I am generally appalled by the behaviour of some of my countrymen, did you see the clip? It could have been Glasgow, Edinburgh, Bristol, Newquay, Cardiff, Bournemouth anywhere in the UK, it just so happened it fitted in nicely with Northumbrian coming from Newcastle, and his comment about wanting to be the Scottish side of the wall, that's all. Too subtle maybe?

 

[Toddy]

Your reasoning totally eludes me

There was nothing subtle about your ribbing, it was rather pointed tbh.

Nowhere did Northumbrian want to shift the 'wall' because the Borderers were a law unto themselves and happily raided both sides if the notion took them and if you go further back then Northumbria was an enormous kingdom that stretched from one side of Britain to the other.

I did see the clip, and yes it was pretty gross, but if you think all of Sweden looks like the first part then I suspect that you are seriously deluded. Every country has it's unpleasant side. That you tied it into Newcastle (or Scotland now ) is simply offensive.
I wouldn't even have known how to go and look for a clip like that..............don't know who that says more about though, you or me ?

To the original topic; I was speaking with a policeman friend about it and he's not impressed with the idea. Thinks it's along the lines of putting out to tender the prisoner transport service.


cheers,
Toddy

 

[Maggot]

Your reasoning totally eludes me

There was nothing subtle about your ribbing, it was rather pointed tbh.

Nowhere did Northumbrian want to shift the 'wall' because the Borderers were a law unto themselves and happily raided both sides if the notion took them and if you go further back then Northumbria was an enormous kingdom that stretched from one side of Britain to the other.

I did see the clip, and yes it was pretty gross, but if you think all of Sweden looks like the first part then I suspect that you are seriously deluded. Every country has it's unpleasant side. That you tied it into Newcastle (or Scotland now ) is simply offensive.
I wouldn't even have known how to go and look for a clip like that..............don't know who that says more about though, you or me ?

To the original topic; I was speaking with a policeman friend about it and he's not impressed with the idea. Thinks it's along the lines of putting out to tender the prisoner transport service.


cheers,
Toddy

Oh,for heavens sake. Of course my reasoning eludes, you don't want to see it.

Look at it this way. If one Scottish person shoots another Scottish person, do you blame Colt or the First Scottish Person? So, if one Scottish Person gets off his head on cheap fortified wine, why do you then blame the Monks of Buckfast Abbey. It's simply not their fault. Do you think they have individual contracts with every newsagent in Scotland? No, they sell Trade, who then sell Cash and Carry who then sell to the Newsagents and Offies who then then sell to Scottish Person who wants to get off his head cheap.

As to where to go for clips like that, Youtube is your best bet.

Now, back to the tag thing, I assume your policeman friend does not believe in bail, probation, community service, curfew tagging or banning orders? They all amount to the same thing. An instruction to stop doing something or the original sentence is invoked. What it has to do with the Prison Transport Service, which is nothing to do with the Police is quite beyond me. Does he have strong views on private medicine or the privatisation of the railways?

 

[Martyn]

Says Gabriel to God,
"How come you've given that bit of the world so many good things ?
Beautiful rich fertile lands, soaring mountains, lochs and rivers full of fish, a wealth of minerals and pearls, glorious scenery, abundant forests ? Even the people are going to be inventive, creative ........ "


"Ah, but," said God, "Just you wait 'til you see the neighbours I give them!"



Toddy

Mary, two wrongs dont make a right!

I didn't abuse monks or religious deities; I did abuse their recalcitrance and reluctance to numerous appeals from not only political and social leaders, but to mass petitions from people affected by the troubles caused by those smashed out of their brains on their product.

That those who drink the stuff should show some personal responsibility goes without saying; that they don't/ won't/ can't, is however the reality that many neighbourhoods endure.

Maybe we could petition the Scottish parliament to bring in a Buckfast tax to pay something towards all the damages ? that however would apparantly, "greatly affect our business in an unfair manner"....reported quote from one of the brewing brothers.

Toddy

Toddy that's just nonsense. What if they switched to Earl Grey, would you be lobbying for a ban on china teacups? Or dare I say it, too many knife attacks, so should we ban knives? People need to take (or be made to take) responsibility for their own actions, not blame inanimate objects for their nations social pathology. Honestly, when it comes to Scotland, you are the most sensitive, reactionary and partisan person I've ever known - and you know I love you to bits - but blaming English monks for Scottish drunks glassing each other, is purely defensive nationalism. If a drunk driver kills a child while behind the wheel, you dont lobby parliament to ban beer and cars, you catch the scrote responsible and lock him up.

 

[Toddy]

Ahah, no you don't.
This isn't partisanship, this is sheer damned commonsense.

The idiots, whether Scottish or English, or whatever variety, aren't going to stop drinking. Regardless of how much we demand that they take personal responsibility for their actions.
....and on that bit did you actually *read* the above posts ? Buckfast isn't just dirtcheap booze, it's an enormous buzz too on top of drunk as a skunk.
Only when in that state does the glass bottles bit come into play, because suddenly it's funny to bash your idiot mate, or the unfortunate bystander with one.
I don't ever recall a cheena teacup being used to 'glass' someone

The monks could quite easily do a tremendous amount of good by simply changing bottles, but they are staunch in their unholy belief that their rotgut is a, " quality product deserving of the glass bottles."

Uhuh. We all believe that, don't we ? ...........and yes, that is Scottish sarcasm at it's most unsubtle.

It's not working locking up the scrotes ( not sure what that means but it escapes the swear filter and I like and trust you enough to believe that it means what it sounds like), the prisons are bulging to no good effect.
The police are heart roasted chasing 15 and 16 year olds who are out of what little brains they have on this stuff, and the 25 and 26 year olds too. I know of 45 year olds who get ratted on it, and on it they are horrible people.

I read the history, it used to be gin that was the rotgut, now it's the Buckie and the White lightening.

There's a huge push to stop shopkeepers selling it to underaged kids, so the kids just give the money to older ones to buy some for themselves too.
They all get stoting drunk and buzzed and before you know it we have broken bottle time again

Incidentally, I don't care if it were Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Spanish or Indian (do they do brewing monks ?) monks, so remove your sensitive English bit from my arguement please. That Buckfast is in England is irrelevant.
Well, maybe, at least down there they can't get irate hordes knocking on their doors to complain of the damage they're doing.
They refused to see the deputation that visited them last I heard.

Personally I'd tax the stuff as much as a spirit. 'Tonic Wine', aye a real tonic that, for their bankroll.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Toddy]

Maggot I'm am perfectly capable of not only logic but rational discussion.
Your changing of your argument basis in mid stream does not make your point any clearer or more valid.

If you actually read my posts instead of cherry picked out bits you think you can retort then you would see that I have no disagreement that the individuals are personally responsible. That they won't/don't/can't is the reality.

One little change and the rest of us don't have to deal with such a hellish concommitant set of problems however...doesn't seem too much to ask, does it ?

Well, not to us who deal with communities where this is a horrendous issue, maybe your bile agin the north blinds you.

Toddy

 

[santaman2000]

...Personally I'd tax the stuff as much as a spirit. 'Tonic Wine', aye a real tonic that, for their bankroll.

cheers,
Toddy

Perhaps a better way to deal with the "glass" problem would be to levy (by law) a large refundable deposit on the bottle itself.