Ghille or Kelly Kettle

[sunndog]

why do folk concern themselves with boil times ? fuel efficiency i can understand.....nature doesnt rush....she prepares .

i too was once curious about boil times.....i nearly ruined a perfectly good stove by foloowing that curiosity. then i grew a beard and stopped to smell the pines

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That is one handsome looking dawg!

 

[mick91]

99p steel bottle and light a fire for me I'm afraid. As a wise man (probably) once said, keep it simple stupid!
As for worrying about boil times, the first time I worry about time while outdoors is the last time I venture out there!

 

[mrcharly]

why do folk concern themselves with boil times ? fuel efficiency i can understand.....nature doesnt rush....she prepares .

Boil times is part of the story, but also the ability to get water to the boil in a gale, when the air temp is freezing.
Imagine you are part of a group doing a night time winter trip (in my case, cycling). Everyone is warm while moving, but rapidly lose heat when they stop. You all stop for a regroup, snack and a drink. There are a couple of trangias, a jetboil and a generic gas stove with the group. The jetboil gets water to the boil but only one large mugful. The gas stove just fails (no windshield, it's blowing 20mph and about 2C). Everyone gives up on waiting for the trangias to boil water after 10 minutes because people are rapidly turning hypothermic.

The next time you do the trip, someone (me) brings along a standard kelly kettle. 3 min after the group stops, steaming hot mugs of tea and coffee are brewing. One person has inadequate gloves and they get first mug to wrap their hands round. The trangia owner doesn't even bother unpacking their stove.

That's my experience of a couple of night-time cycling trips. People could have brought more clothing, but clothes up to keeping someone warm in the middle of the north york moors in October are bloody bulky and would need to be packed away once people were riding. The kelly kettle made what could have been a bit miserable into an enjoyable experience.

 

[sandbag47]

For me the deciding factor was that I can now buy KK in stainless steel. If weight is not critical I would highly recommend a stainless model. With the aluminium versions, I've seen the firebox suffer quite badly from repeated use..

That is true of the non-anodised kettles (after a lot of repeated use)
But they Started to anodisng the kettles to help stop the warping.
The non-anodised kettle i have has taken a lot of punishment and it still works fine

 

[dewi]

For those interested, test I wanted to do is complete.

Same quantity of wood versus pine cones... both using the same starting method (although I need not have bothered with the pine cones, they went up in seconds) and both using exactly 800ml of water with a starting temperature of 15.8 degrees Celsius.

Wood took 5 minutes and 12 seconds to boil the water to 97.2C... maximum temperature at chimney opening was 640C.

Cones took 5 minutes and 49 seconds to boil the water to 98C... maximum temperature at chimney opening was 610C.

Time being largely irrelevant as it turns out, and being the same quantity, space isn't a deciding factor either.

What is a good deciding factor is the way the cones burned... the initial cone lit easily and rapidly lit the others around it. I used 19 cones in total, though they were smallish cones. The wood took a little more coaxing to get going.


Next test, going to see if I can cook using just cones using the hobo stove attachment to the KK... my youngest kids are enjoying collecting them and my eldest thinks I'm nuts for using a digital thermometer to measure what a Kelly Kettle does. I don't care, I'm having fun and its a good excuse to use the kettle in the garden

In fact, I think to test the cones properly, I may just have to sit out there each day for a bit... all for science of course.

 

[Alan 13~7]

For those interested, test I wanted to do is complete.

Same quantity of wood versus pine cones... both using the same starting method (although I need not have bothered with the pine cones, they went up in seconds) and both using exactly 800ml of water with a starting temperature of 15.8 degrees Celsius.

Wood took 5 minutes and 12 seconds to boil the water to 97.2C... maximum temperature at chimney opening was 640C.

Cones took 5 minutes and 49 seconds to boil the water to 98C... maximum temperature at chimney opening was 610C.

Time being largely irrelevant as it turns out, and being the same quantity, space isn't a deciding factor either.

What is a good deciding factor is the way the cones burned... the initial cone lit easily and rapidly lit the others around it. I used 19 cones in total, though they were smallish cones. The wood took a little more coaxing to get going.


Next test, going to see if I can cook using just cones using the hobo stove attachment to the KK... my youngest kids are enjoying collecting them and my eldest thinks I'm nuts for using a digital thermometer to measure what a Kelly Kettle does. I don't care, I'm having fun and its a good excuse to use the kettle in the garden

In fact, I think to test the cones properly, I may just have to sit out there each day for a bit... all for science of course.

So talking pack~space wise & weight wise were pine cones better or worse than wood as a take along fuel

You mentioned "The wood took a little more coaxing to get going."

Forgive me if I am preaching to the quire here :~ wood wise try testing Maya sticks A.K.A. Fatwood it lights quickly even when wet, is very wind resistant, and burns hot enough to light larger pieces of wood.

It is prized as kindling for use in starting fires. It is derived from the heartwood of pine trees. This resin-impregnated heartwood becomes hard and rot-resistant. The stump (and tap root) left in the ground after a tree has fallen or has been cut is an excellent source of fatwood.

 

[ged]

To make it easy to light, I just squirt a bit of meths in after I've filled the fire pan with whatever comes to hand. Doesn't even matter if it's wet, it will soon dry out in theGhillie.

 

[ged]

... they Started to anodisng the kettles to help stop the warping.

Will somebody explain to me how that's supposed to work?

The non-anodised kettle i have has taken a lot of punishment and it still works fine

Mine too. The fire bowl has warped quite a bit but it still holds a fire so I really don't care very much.

I still want to make a five-litre stainless one though.

 

[dewi]

So talking pack~space wise & weight wise were pine cones better or worse than wood as a take along fuel

You mentioned "The wood took a little more coaxing to get going."

Forgive me if I am preaching to the quire here :~ wood wise try testing Maya sticks A.K.A. Fatwood it lights quickly even when wet, is very wind resistant, and burns hot enough to light larger pieces of wood.

It is prized as kindling for use in starting fires. It is derived from the heartwood of pine trees. This resin-impregnated heartwood becomes hard and rot-resistant. The stump (and tap root) left in the ground after a tree has fallen or has been cut is an excellent source of fatwood.

For the same space, there isn't too much different... the 19 cones would have fit in the same space as the wood and visa versa. Weight wise, hadn't thought about that... I'll weigh both as I'm going to run the test again but with a different lighting method. I suspect the cones will be lighter... but an accurate weight and mass would be useful to record.

This time round I lit with some small twigs as kindling and a squirt of kerosene. The wood lit, then went out again... whilst the cone just lit straight away. I think even without the kerosene or the kindling even, the cones would have lit. Something I'll look into on the next test. Both the wood and the cones have been stored in the same temperature, same dry conditions.

One of the chaps at the last meet I attend was talking about fatwood... he also gave me some small cotton balls with a dab of vaseline on them to test... they were really good firestarters.

I'm also exploring the chemical mix firestarter and also the piston starter... but I'll have a look for some fatwood... thank you

 

[dewi]

Forgot to add the piccy of my laboratory

 

[Hammock_man]

I think its the way pine cones force you to have air gaps and passage ways for the first flames.

 

[dewi]

I think its the way pine cones force you to have air gaps and passage ways for the first flames.

How I wished for a high speed camera when that first pine cone lit... it was a sight in regular time, but I should imagine on a high speed camera it would be like a firework display.

Wonder how much those cameras are to hire? Would be worth it for seeing that inital spark.

 

[Chiseller]

That is one handsome looking dawg!

hes not bad when he doesn't do a Fenton

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[Chiseller]

Forgot to add the piccy of my laboratory

View attachment 37504

i can see why the wood took some coaxing and burning....

i never use anything thicker than my pinky finger and swear by "gypsy sticks" for lighting and burning...that or thin dead pine. cheers ....becoming an interesting thread.

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[dewi]

i can see why the wood took some coaxing and burning....

i never use anything thicker than my pinky finger and swear by "gypsy sticks" for lighting and burning...that or thin dead pine. cheers ....becoming an interesting thread.

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They were just over the size of my index finger... and there were some smaller sticks used as kindling, but I see what you mean... I'll quarter them as the ones on the ground I still have... I only burned what is in the KK base.

I should probably just use some gathered sticks as well for a test. The test was to see what the most effective, efficient fuel to carry inside the KK, so expanding it to other things seems logical.


Slightly off the topic, but we mentioned about char cloth earlier, has anyone tried the same process with cotton wool?

 

[Alan 13~7]

Dewi by "I'm also exploring the chemical mix firestarter" do you mean this stuff?

KMnO4, & gliserol detail by Alan 13-7, on Flickr

(Approx) 4 Grams of KMn04 (A.K.A.Potassium permanganate) & 2ml of glycerol which doesn’t sound like a lot but it is enough powder (depending on the amount you use & the conditions) to start around 5 fires.

Available from MD Flashlights etc. Ltd

Megga fun but be warned wear gloves it stains everything purple & it doesn't wash off

I dont get the opportunity to use it much but this is my pyrotechnic kit:~

My fire lighting kit & tinder box contains... by Alan 13-7, on Flickr

I like these guys for fire related stuff you might find something useful here?

http://www.sharkdesigns.co.uk/home_pages/1_fire_online_store.html

 

[dewi]

Yes, that is the chemical mix... had no idea it would work with such small quantities... I was going to attempt it with much larger amounts so glad you've said!

My wife uses the glycerin for china painting and I know I can get my hands (not literally) on potassium permanganate, so I figured it was worth a try as a starter method. Didn't know it was already available as a kit.

The shark designs website is pretty cool... once I have my workshop setup as I want it, going to have a go at making my own steel striker. Wouldn't bet on it being brilliant as I've been on a blacksmithing course for a day in Yorkshire and spent 2 days with Dave Budd on an axe making course, so although I have a good idea what I'm going, I'm not what you would call practiced.

Hoping to do a second test with what I already have tonight... though this time I'm going to use meths as a starter fluid as suggested, slim down the wood and introduce small sticks as a third option.