Calibre Choice for Deer WARNING - GRAPHIC IMAGES

[dogwood]

For a long time, my goal was to make all my own archery tackle and take a deer with it. Points were my weakness. I tried knapping glass and vitreous china from broken toilets (we call it "Johnstone" or "Commodium" ) but never got a single decent point.

There's nothing quite like taking a deer with a selfbow and arrows you've made. And I imagine that taking it with a point I've made will be even sweeter.

Knapping takes some practice, that's for sure. Try using tempered plate glass or even the thick bottoms of bottles, you can get some nice points from them and glass can be easier than stone when you're first starting out.

I'm going to be doing some knapping later this month -- mostly obsidian (hey, I'm a Californian, it's what we have!) but also some Texas chert and dactite.

I figure I'll end up with more points than I'll need, so if you want, I'll drop three or four in the mail to you so we can compare notes when deer season rolls around.

PM me if you're interested.

(Sorry for veering off course on the thread... now back to firearms, let me sing the praises of a fine hand made .50 blackpowder rifle when it comes to deer....

Next to archery, it's the most emotionally satisfying experience to me. You shoot, can't see anything from the smoke and when it clears, hopefully the game is already down...)

 

[dogwood]

Oblio13, here's a point I made a couple of months ago. It was made for an atlatl dart rather than arrow. I happen to have it at my desk so I took a quick picture of it with my phone.

I don't know how many grams it is, but it's nearly 3 inches long and feels a tad heavy for an arrow.

Here's a side view -- nice and thin. You can't quite tell from my crummy picture, but the edge is sharp enough to easily slice your skin.

 

[Lo-IQ]

I don't want to seem ungreatful but this forum is called whatever UK, can you chaps head off and knock one out over bushcraft usa...

cos what your writing can not ever be put into practise.

In the luverly united kingdoom if your caught you'd be changing your names to Mary while a man called jessie teaches you about earning a fiver the hard way in slade prison.

sorry if that's off topic but it's a valid point.

 

[Oblio13]

Lo-IQ, we're talking about the "Bushcraft" part of "BushcraftUK", not the "UK" part.

Dogwood, that thing's a work of art.

 

[Chinkapin]

Here is a good source of rifle ballistics.
www.rifleshootermag.com/ballistics/ballistic-tables/
Here is a good source for trajectory.
www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm

Here is one of the best explanations of terminal ballistics that I know of. If you hunt, this will be very informative.
www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/terminal.html

These charts are easy to use and the ballistics article uses only math anyone can understand, and not much of that.

Remember whether you subscribe to the big bullet theory or the small bullet theory, it eventually, for the most part, comes down to how much energy was imparted to the target. Then other factors rear their ugly heads, such as does the bullet fragment or not, does it tumble, how big is the temporary wound channel, and how big is the permanent wound channel. Not to even mention, where was the animal hit. Bullet placement isn't everything but it is nearly everything.

I assure you Lo-IQ, that the ballistics tables I am discussing do not become invalid when moved across the Atlantic. They are just as applicable to British hunters as to American hunters. Sorry if you feel like some of the Americans on here are somehow "poaching" your territory.

 

[Lo-IQ]

Lo-IQ, we're talking about the "Bushcraft" part of "BushcraftUK", not the "UK" part.

Dogwood, that thing's a work of art.

good point and please accept my apology, for the comment perhaps I read that wrong.

 

[Cael Nu Mara]

a valid point Chinkapin, I think we brits could learn alot from the states, but you could also learn alot from us. We have been hunting in this country for a long time, some of thee knowledge has bbeen lost but alot still remains. I know a few old hill men who wold but you all to shame, not about ballistics, but about hunting, deer and the land.


Sam

 

[Mikey P]

In terms of meat damage, if the round hits a bone on entry, are there issues with bone and bullet fragments in the meat itself? How would you avoid this - aim-point or load?

 

[Lo-IQ]

I like those tables, and your right the data is not lost but the point is. If you rock up at a shoot with the wrong gun they won't let you shoot, it's that simple. If they let you shoot and something goes wrong the first thing you notice is how uncomfortable handcuffs are. Britain is very small in comparison, the people who shoot get issued different licenses Target = closed license, Section 1 Game = open license.

An open license in parts of the country is actually very hard to get, for the simple reason they (the police) don't want to have any have go hero's wandering about letting rip with any sort of weapon. let alone one that can really do some damage.

The other post on deer the saddle is the best cut, the haunches next, the rest is bobbins. You need the organs to check for meat quality and desease. If the rounds your using rips the animal appart that these cuts are not savagable or that the guts are all over the shop and the scene looks like a slasher film, then you also need to consider taking up a different hobby.

In some countries they shoot the front legs out with shot guns to preserve more of the meat, but again that's not exactly how is should be done in the UK, unless you live in a caravan and the law does not apply to you anyway.

 

[Cael Nu Mara]

.

The other post on deer the saddle is the best cut, the haunches next, the rest is bobbins.

not if you cook it right...


My favourite venison is kidneys, i had some for my breakfast this morning



Sam

 

[Oblio13]

In terms of meat damage, if the round hits a bone on entry, are there issues with bone and bullet fragments in the meat itself? How would you avoid this - aim-point or load?

Both where you hit it and what you hit it with have an effect, of course. But the difference between undamaged meat and bloodshot meat is so apparent that you'll have no trouble discerning it and trimming it off.

The perfect shot is broadside and just behind the shoulder, through both lungs, as I mentioned above. There will be almost no wasted meat. If your aim is a little high, you'll hit the spine. A little low is the heart. A little too far aft is the liver. A hit in any of those will be very quickly fatal as well.

 

[Cael Nu Mara]

The perfect shot is broadside and just behind the shoulder, through both lungs

I disagree with that one chum, the perfect shot for minimum meat damage is base of neck, a spine shot. This however is NOT recommend to novices/less experianced stalkers, as it is harder to achive and more likely that you will injur the beast. But if you know your eggs, it is the perfect shot (in the right situation) as it means the beast cannot run (broken spine). Under NO circumstances would I reckomend a head shot EVER, too many broken jaws due to bad shot placement.


All of the above is my opinion, and is disregarded by many. For the record, i generally go with easier shot, Neck it. Harder shot/distance Heart Lung.


Sam

 

[FerlasDave]

Whats wrong with a good no.8? and why dont people go for headshots?

 

[Cael Nu Mara]

Whats wrong with a good no.8? and why dont people go for headshots?

A deer is constgantley moving its head, quicker than any other part of its body, a twitch at the wrong time and your beast is minus a jaw, still running free and will not be able to eat= horrible slow death.


A good No.8??


Sam

 

[Oblio13]

I disagree with that one chum, the perfect shot for minimum meat damage is base of neck, a spine shot...

... why dont people go for headshots?

While a brain or upper spine shot is an instant kill, deer have a tendency to move their heads suddenly and unpredictably. A near miss goes through eyes, jaw, esophagus, etc. That's a cruel death and an animal that probably won't be recovered.

 

[FerlasDave]

A good No.8??

Its a .22 rifle

 

[Cael Nu Mara]

well ive never heard that before?!


Sam

 

[FerlasDave]

Its what we used to refer to them as back in cadets. They just fire a .22 round IMO wouldnt this be suitable for deer?

I dont understad why people weigh bullets and use a certain 'grain' bullet its still going to go faster than the speed of sound and go far and fast enough to take down a deer, that is if it is the correct callibre. (again IMHO) weight of a bullet wouldnt have that much affect on a rifle. you never see the brittish army measuring their bullets.

 

[UKdave]

Bushwacker

I`m not sure what you want from me? can you elaborate.

 

[Cael Nu Mara]

Its what we used to refer to them as back in cadets. They just fire a .22 round IMO wouldnt this be suitable for deer?

I dont understad why people weigh bullets and use a certain 'grain' bullet its still going to go faster than the speed of sound and go far and fast enough to take down a deer, that is if it is the correct callibre. (again IMHO) weight of a bullet wouldnt have that much affect on a rifle. you never see the brittish army measuring their bullets.

NO, that is far too small for deer. Rabbits yes but not alot bigger. The army do measure their bullets bud, just not soldiers in the field, they just shoot what they are given. If you are interested read what is written above. The .22lr round is in no way legal to shoot wild deer with in the UK, and very inhumane to do so? Do you Shoot much?



Sam