"Bruiser Knife"

[sam_acw]

Not a fan of the finger guard - Maybe just make the handle out of a grippier material? If you want a real basher then maybe it should have a welded on butt plate. I saw it on the skookum bush tool and think it is a really good idea.
I've no idea how helpful this is but it is fun trying to think of features!

 

[British Red]

Looking at it I tend to agree on the guard - It needs to be reduced in size.

Grippy is a good way of putting it - thats why I thought of amtler for the handles (haven't got an antler patter though).

Hmmm butt plate is interesting. Not sure about that - need to mull it over.

I.m not sure the point is quite right either - I'm thinking curve the top edge and drop the point further.

Red

 

[stuart m]

So 4mm convex with a scandy bevel...... (thanks Ash)

Scales.

I love the look of antler....would Sambar stag be tough though? Or would wood be better? I could even be persuaded to micarta if someone can convince me of a good reason.

Red

4mm A2 will be ample... 4mm x about 6", well ht'd, will make a great blade.

I myself like Sambar, and I have some beutiful examples in the 'shop at present... But, if I can manage to describe it, in your drawing Red, this one...

... You have the handle material "covering the full width of the tang, including the guard... If you do that, cover the guard, in Sambar, there is chance that in shaping the underside of the grip you will grind away the Sambar to reveal the pithy central core... We don't want that. Even by reducing the guard length the risk is still present... Using a bolster will eliminate the risk but I'm not sure a bolster is right for this knife?

Obviously I can select a peice with the least amount of pith but most has at least some.

Make sense?

I could even be persuaded to micarta if someone can convince me of a good reason.

For purely selfish reasons, I like Micarta, I would think that any maker will say the same... When I fix Micarta to a tang I know 100% that it will do it's job... I know what I will be left with when I have shaped that handle, before I even start shaping... And, I know what that handle will look like in 10/20/30 years time... With any natural material, even stabilised, none of that is true.

Bob Loveless said that he used Micarta for knife handles because Micarta is a great knife handle material.

My eyes keep getting drawn to that guard and the width of the scale material that covers it... It's only thin there mate and the scale material has to be up to the job.

Grippy is a good way of putting it...

Canvas Micarta

 

[British Red]

Hi stu - good wedding?

Hmmm let me think then. I think that guard is going to have to be reduced or made into a metal bolster. I totally understand what you are saying with reagrd to scales covering the guard - if we keep it it would have to be steel or brass I guess.

Micarta.....hmmmm. I can see what you are saying - its a solid material and more certain in the shaping. I do see what you mean with the stag - the open end could show the centre core. Micarta does still say "palstic" to me...but if theres a good reason....

I'll think on and do another sketch later

Red

 

[stuart m]

Hi stu - good wedding?

Hmmm let me think then. I think that guard is going to have to be reduced or made into a metal bolster. I totally understand what you are saying with reagrd to scales covering the guard - if we keep it it would have to be steel or brass I guess.

Yes, great thanks mate

With that guard there is always the option of leaving it as long as you wish but simply not cover it with the scale... Like this....

Steel/brass/nickel bolsters just don't say "Bruiser" to me...

 

[stuart m]

Just came across this great post in another thread Red... I thought you might find it interesting, I know I did...

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=324861&postcount=2

 

[weaver]

Some informative reading if you have the time.

http://archive.metalformingmagazine.com/1997/09/ToolStee/997tool.htm

CPM 10V looks very interesting.

 

[British Red]

Stu - I think you may have cracked it with that picture - that would do the job I think - much better than a blster (its enough guard too) . Reckon that would work with Sambar?

Thanks for the link weaver - I bleed out the ears trying to understand that stuff to be honest. RWL34 and A2 and CPM 30V have variously been suggested. I'd be interested if someone could give a really simple explanation of each?

Off to look at the drawings!

Red

 

[stuart m]

Stu - I think you may have cracked it with that picture - that would do the job I think - much better than a blster (its enough guard too) . Reckon that would work with Sambar?

Yes it would work with Sambar mate

 

[British Red]

Okay, sketch No. 2.

Point dropped a bit and more "spear" than "clip". Metal "stub guard" repalcing the fuller bottom guard covered by the scales.

Any thoughts?

Red

 

[Phil562]

Red, why not Micarta ?

 

[British Red]

Cos its plastic

 

[Phil562]

Cos its plastic

OK, fair one, but mines lovely

 

[Shinken]

I'd be interested if someone could give a really simple explanation of each?

really simple?

stainless contains 14% or more chromium. which tends to improve wear resistance but decreases toughness.

stainless steels are 440c 154cm etc etc

then you have stainless powder steels, they are the same as above but tend to have more alloys in them and are a little tougher (but not as tough as simple carbon steel) because the particles of the metal are better mixed and smaller.

these are rwl 34, s90v, s30v etc

then you have powder carbon/alloy steels, basically the same as above but with a lot less chromium. this and the fact that they are powder steels makes them incredibly tough.

these are cpm3v, cpm10v etc etc

then you have simple carbon steels, they dont have alot of alloys at all and the carbon is what makes them hard. the fact that they dont have alot of alloys make them really tough with reduced wear and corrosion resistance.

these are 1095, 1075 etc etc

then you have tool steels, these are carbon steels with high alloy content to varying degrees. basically they are modified carbon steels made for differing purposes. depending on what alloys are added they have slightly better wear resistance and or corrosion resistence than simple carbon steels but not as good as stainless steels.

these are A2, 01 etc etc

Very basic but i hope this helps

 

[Dougster]

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22383&highlight=cpm

I really liked this handle - and by all accounts it is performing well. I'm putting it on my RWL34 blade from Stu this month.

It's good plastic.

 

[Shinken]

so pros and cons.

rwl34

pros= excellent wear resistance and rust resistance, mediocre toughness
cons= harder to sharpen, mediocre toughness

A2

pros= mediocre wear resistance and mediocre rust resistance, good toughness
cons= mediocre wear resistance and mediocre rust resistance

01

pros= mediocre wear resistance, good toughness
cons=mediocre wear resistance, poor rust resistance

cpm 3v

pros= mediocre rust resistance, good wear resistance, outstanding toughness
cons= mediocre rust resistance, hard to get hold of and really expensive lol

 

[Shinken]

CPM 10V looks very interesting

High vanadium,medium chromium powder steel

it has half the toughness of A2 but about five times greater wear resistance than A2 at same hardness

 

[British Red]

Thanks Ash - that I can understand!

Thanks Rich too - I had a good look at those pictures. Antler or wood it is!

I can see all the advantages of micarta but it doesn't move me at all

So...this is for Stu -

(1) what do you think of A2 vs CPM30V? whic seem to be the choices given the task? Given I am a poor boy right now, I'm erring towards your A2 suggestion

(2) Antler or wood? Pros and cons of each?

Red

 

[weaver]

You seem to contradict yourself here. As I understand it the powder steels have a much finer grain structure which allows greater hardening, greater wear resistance AND more toughness, not achievable in non powder metals due too the larger carbide sizes.

Is that not true? Seems the ouch here would be harder to sharpen. But, Red should be able to handle that. Cost may be the deciding factor since he implied this is somewhat of a frugal effort.

I like A-2 I just thought the powder metal was interesting.

CPM 10V High vanadium,medium chromium powder steel

it has half the toughness of A2 but about five times greater wear resistance than A2 at same hardness

really simple?
then you have stainless powder steels, they are the same as above but tend to have more alloys in them and are a little tougher (but not as tough as simple carbon steel) because the particles of the metal are better mixed and smaller.

these are rwl 34, s90v, s30v etc

then you have powder carbon/alloy steels, basically the same as above but with a lot less chromium. this and the fact that they are powder steels makes them incredibly tough.

these are cpm3v, cpm10v etc etc

then you have simple carbon steels, they dont have alot of alloys at all and the carbon is what makes them hard. the fact that they dont have alot of alloys make them really tough with reduced wear and corrosion resistance.

these are 1095, 1075 etc etc

then you have tool steels, these are carbon steels with high alloy content to varying degrees. basically they are modified carbon steels made for differing purposes. depending on what alloys are added they have slightly better wear resistance and or corrosion resistence than simple carbon steels but not as good as stainless steels.

these are A2, 01 etc etc

Very basic but i hope this helps

 

[Shinken]

You seem to contradict yourself here. As I understand it the powder steels have a much finer grain structure which allows greater hardening, greater wear resistance AND more toughness, not achievable in non powder metals due too the larger carbide sizes

it would seem so, but i was being very basic.

powder steel is molten pre alloyed steel poured out into a high pressure gas atomizer.

basically it make for a potentially tougher steel, so if you had two steels with identical alloy content one a powder steel and the other not, then the powder steel would be tougher.

10v has 2.5% carbon 5% chromium and a whopping 9% vanadium, which is why it isnt as tough as A2 but it's wear resistance is considerably higher