You Brits are Lucky

[directdrive]

Hello All: Long time since my last posting. I've been fishing/hunting and have been away from the niceties of electricity and computers for some time now. I have to admit that it is quite nice to be back in the lap of luxury! I am fly/mosquito bitten and much less fat than I was.
I am very much jealous that there is such a great enthusiasm for bushcraft in the UK. Here in the states, there is little or no interest; certainly not the kind generated over the pond in your neck of the woods. I'd love it if all of you could come over here and have a giant bushmoot in the wilderness in one of our states :You_Rock. Keep up the good work. :You_Rock_

Bruce

 

[JBOGGS]

There is a couple of us wannabees lurking around. Are you east or west of the Mississippi?

JBOGGS

 

[jerv]

funny you should say that I thought it was the other way around. Nearly every book I buy is form the US (if not written by americans then only published there) lots of my clothing and equipment comes form the US too. I have quite a few American friends form living abroad and have been offered jobs there. Tragically the missus has a job she loves and doesn't want to leave or i'd be there like a shot. I've always fancied living in montana or washington state.

 

[Mr_Rimps]

A moot in the USA...well now, there's an idea

 

[JonnyP]

A moot in the USA...well now, there's an idea

Can you imagine customs, and all of us lot with shinys.......

 

[Toddy]

Can you imagine customs, and all of us lot with shinys.......

and dpm.......

cheers,
Toddy

 

[British Red]

Can you imagine customs, and all of us lot with shinys.......

Hmm, "Coals to Newcastle" springs to mind . It does have possibilities though a US moot.....

I'm not taking my ventile though

"Whats that?"

"Thats Reds Coat"

"Redcoat???????????"

 

[Squidders]

I'd move to the US in a heartbeat... so much more wilderness than we have here. I don't want to be Mr popular, I want space to do my thing and as 100% of the UK is owned and managed by someone, it's pretty tricky to "get away".

Right to roam my lilly white hehehe

 

[wizard]

I don't think that there is less interest in the US for bushcraft, just some outdoor skills are practiced differently. We do have vast wilderness areas and areas that are open to everyone, not everywhere but in most states there are lots of areas we can travel in without any special permissions. It is becoming more "closed" however, areas I used to go to at my leisure now have some permit system with limits on how many people can be there at one time and such. Some areas that comes to mind are Mt. Whitney, California and Zion National Park in Utah. The slot canyons we used to travel in Zion are now all on a permit system and very crowded! Mt. Whitney has a permit system, limits and it is booked years in advance.
Anyway, I think many people in the USA go to the wild country, they just may not cook on a campfire, carry a heavy pack or do camping the same way. There is no shortage of backpackers that hike trails regularly, they just cook almost exclusively on stoves and many consider a fixed blade knife as too "Rambo" to carry. Most would never consider an axe, make a spoon or pouch a rabbit and cook up the meat for dinner. There is no shortage of people that do carry rigid knives, eat game meat and use an axe to chop firewood, they are usually not hikers, they travel by horse, Jeep or 4-wheel contraptions that they tow up to the woods in a trailer. I know few people that hunt game and backpack. Almost 2 different types of people there.
There are some of us that have been around a long time that remember when camping was something you did to get away from crowds, we cooked on campfires as much as possible and thought nothing of wearing a fixed blade knife on our belt and had an axe strapped to our pack. Some of those things I think became unpopular because of pressure from groups that feel you need to be on a nature hike all the time and not a real adventure. Hard to put it into words.
I know myself, for a long time I stopped carrying a fixed knife, I could get by with a SAK because I was not using it for much besides slicing cheese or sausage. I was not concerned with making bow drills, fuzz sticks or batoning wood.
Those activities are more related in the USA thought process as "survival skills". I find many here have few real survival skills, some have many, most have little or none.
I can recall a recent dayhike I participated in that was sponsored by a well known national outdoors/environmentalist group. There were about 10 people that came along and out of 10 there was probably 2 in the group that had the means and ability to start a fire with limited equipment. Most had inadequate clothing if the weather had deteriorated suddenly and again probably only 2 of us had adequate first aid gear, knowledge and could remain out overnight, had the need arose.
Hiking in the USA in my opinion, has evolved into a fitness sport rather than one of enjoying nature and camping out. Since I am older now and not in the physical condition I once was in, and not likely to get back in top shape at my age, that most people I hike with are always in a rush to get the trip over with as opposed to enjoying the outdoor experience. It seems like a race usually.
One thing that makes me believe that idea, is that a club that I have belonged to for decades, used to have regular overnight backpack trips and occasional dayhikes. For the past 10 years there have been less and less overnight trips and more and more dayhikes. I can see some reasons for that, one is people have less time perhaps. Another reason is it costs less for kit to just dayhike. Some folks may only carry a single water bottle on a day trip because no one ever pointed out to them that they could need a bit more if some emergency forced them to spend the night or longer out in the wild.
I think however people want to enjoy the wilderness is fine, I do not oppose one type of "camper" over another, the important thing is enjoy and be safe.
The safety concerns me somewhat since I have seen so many ill-equipped people in the wilderness in recent years and because not as much outdoor wisdom seems to get passed along as perhaps once was.
What we need here in the US is a Ray Mears to get us motivated, educated and generally get our attention. Some of Ray's shows have been broadcast in the USA and hopefully got a few people interested and motivated. I completely agree, there needs to be more traditional outdoor skills practiced and less emphasis on high-tech gear. People also need to start enjoying the wilderness more for the beauty and solitude and stop turning each hike into a race.
Cheers!

 

[OzaawaaMigiziNini]

I asked my mentor once about the business of Survival as well as Bushcraft, and if he thought Canada was a good place to teach it.

His answer was this;

"In Canada, we have the wilderness, but barely anyone wants to use it to learn these skills. They'll claim they do, but when the moment arrives they'll decline. In America, alot of people are intriqued by survival skills, and in Western Europe, they don't have the vast expanses of untouched wilderness we have. So they appreciate the skills much more than we do as a people. So if you want to run a survival or bushcraft business, or atleast teach it to a large mass, you need to head South or overseas."

 

[BOD]

Wizard,

You are 100% right. It is the situation almost everywhere

 

[Voivode]

West of where I live is a fairly vast "managed" wilderness area. One is allowed to do most anything they like within it, as long as it isn't motorized. There are no permanent, maintained campgrounds within it and the trails are poorly mapped, if at all. When hunting season comes around, the hunters are in there taking their kills. No industrial development allowed.

The fact that it is relatively wild and is protected from development makes it ideal; If one wants to go in and play, one has to be prepared for the lack of services and at the same time there aren't logging trucks and oil rigs modifying the landscape. The lack of roads and services keeps the casual out.

I am, for one, glad there is not a popularizing "Ray Mears" figure out there bringing the masses into the wilderness. The masses head out into the "wilderness" of Banff and Jasper all the time, which is great; city folk need to get out and at least sample the wilderness that sustains them. I liken the national parks as being wildlife preserves for people as well as animals; Go spend a night or two in a campground surrounded by other campers, flush toilets and bear-proof garbage bins, marvel at the "wild" majesty of it all and then head back to the office. Leave the real wild areas to those who actually want to get out there and get into it.

All that rambling for this; the masses concentrate in the National Parks for their "wilderness" experiences and forgo the hardships of truly wild areas. If there was a Ray Mears, it might convince them to start pushing into the wilderness areas and bring roads, campgrounds and cappuccino vendors with them, as has happened in the National Parks. I'm not so much for that.

 

[spamel]

I think those of you over in Canada and America have a mass of natural wild land that makes you guys the lucky ones. UK can be very difficult to get away from other people, we live one on top of the other and the wild land is dissapearing fast.

Whilst I've been in Germany, I've been lucky enough to find some nice quiet spots away from the rat race, and I've seen countless deer of varying species, a family of wild boar charging out of some woods in front of me, large wood eagles and woodpeckers flying over my camp, foxes and all sorts of other wildlife. I know I am spoilt and will miss it when I get back to UK. That makes me kind of sad.

 

[303Brit]

Interesting reading the comments on the above posts. Everywhere has its pro's and cons. I live in Germany (ex. Brit.Army),and it has vast areas of forest,however,these areas are managed woodland,all carefully controlled.Their are many restrictions,overnight stays,fire lighting being just the main ones,some Forestmeisters dont even like you going off the the tracks. A wife of a friend of mine was told sharply to move on by one because she stopped a few feet away from the track on a fallen log to have a break with her small son!
All a bit depressing and frustrating if you want to spend a night out in the "wilds"
the only way around it is to brake/bend the law a bit.I basicly go out with a friend also interested in bushcraft and we stop before it gets dark and cook on a track,or by the side of it,then just before last night move into an area and set up our bashas/tarps,and get our heads down and take in the forest for the night.This may seem a bit extrem for some people out there but there are ways "around" everything!.Lighting a fire is a strict no no,as fines here are draconian.And at dawn were are up packed in a few minutes and stop for breakfast later.I am shure a lot of ex Army guys will recognise this routine out there.We leave nothing behind,no trace that we were there.
Because the woods are manged,you do see quite a bit of wildlife in them,these are the joys of getting off the main tracks.
Germany has no wild or primitive campsites,and even fewer,-if at all-where you can have a fire ,direct in front of your tent, even under safe controlled conditions.Interesting that most trendy outdoor outfitters in Germany always use pictures of people sitting around campfires,being one with nature,the image is great,the reality is differnt.
I am shure most people are aware real wilderness is at a premium,rare to be found nowadays,and i understand the need to protect it,but if you deny people access and contact with it ,they will no longer care about it.
One of the pros are that not far from me is a 'Educational Forest ',where you can do many courses on all aspects of forestry from Tree felling,Forest management Wild Foods,basic survival,Natural Medicine,Hunting Basics etc many are for children.
It would be great to live in a land diverse as the USA,or as sparsly populated as Greenland,or have the Scandanavian Forests at my doorstep,but as this is not so make do with what you have and adapt.If anyone one has any good tips for camping ,or good areas and Knows any Bushcraft friendly Forestmeisters in Germany! would love to hear.

 

[pibbleb]

I agree I've found this thread very interesting. We have a real problem here with being able to get away from it all, unless you know a land owner.

The right to roam is a bit of a joke in England, although perhaps better than it has been in the past.

One problem we have is that my daughter, who loves being out with her dad doing the outdoor stuff, but it terrified of dogs, however where ever we go the area seems to be riddled with dog owners or dog fowl.

So in short I'm jealous of you guys, huge areas of wilderness and if you meet someone else it's by chance rather than down to over crowding!

We are hoping, when Mrs Pibble qualifies, to go over to Canada and experience some real wilderness camping!

P

 

[rich59]

There is a very active US forum at http://survival.com/IVB/ . I don't know if they meet up often.

 

[Toddy]

I meet a lot of people, in many different environments, right across the country; and young or old, they *all* find making/ creating something with our own hands at least of interest, at best a real fascination That we use materials sourced from the natural environment around us adds to the appeal, that we can not just live, but thrive, in that environment is actually a source of envy and a desire to learn.
I'm fortunate that I live in a country where, "Just going for a walk" (A wee daun'er) has *always* been sufficient reason to be someplace; and now, with legislation in place to formalise the right to roam I feel that it's time to really open up our bit of the world to all of our children make them nature wise as well as street wise

Bushcraft is just a name, it has so many connotations attached to it though, mostly positive (Thanks Ray :You_Rock_ ) that it's an easy way to start a conversation flowing.
I suspect that in North America all of those activities that we consider Bushcraft are simply known by different names.
Different envirnoment require different strategies, I am well content in my green, damp, cool bit of the world, but it is interesting to see the crafts and skills of other areas.

atb,
Toddy

 

[TheGreenMan]

...I am very much jealous that there is such a great enthusiasm for bushcraft in the UK...

I think to some extent, our interest in bushcraft, Bruce, can be explained by the total absence of bush, here in the UK. There are a few wild places where one could still come to a bad end in severe weather conditions, but no wilderness as such.

Best regards,
Paul.

PS: There are some really interesting posts in this thread. Thanks to all.

 

[pibbleb]

At the Ray Mears lecture I went to the other day I asked how best he finds getting kids interested in what we do.

His response was not surprising, but reassuring in my opinion, and it echo's what Toddy has said.

He said that you don't need to get kids interested in Bushcraft the interest is there they enjoy making with their hands they enjoy being able to learn and they naturally know to look into the heart of a fire and enjoy it's warmth.

I have found these words encouragement enough to keep taking the kids out despite the stress it can cause for my daughter in particular however, it would be great if we had more local places to visit such as those West of the pond!

P

 

[Ridge Runner]

Hello All: Long time since my last posting. I've been fishing/hunting and have been away from the niceties of electricity and computers for some time now. I have to admit that it is quite nice to be back in the lap of luxury! I am fly/mosquito bitten and much less fat than I was.
I am very much jealous that there is such a great enthusiasm for bushcraft in the UK. Here in the states, there is little or no interest; certainly not the kind generated over the pond in your neck of the woods. I'd love it if all of you could come over here and have a giant bushmoot in the wilderness in one of our states :You_Rock. Keep up the good work. :You_Rock_

Bruce

That is kind of funny.....I have felt the opposite about the "Brits" for quite some time.

They do not have 1/100th of the wilderness that we do here.......
Their firearms are being taken away from them left and right......Where as here many hunters practice bushcraft on a regular basis and live off the land.
And we have sooooo much more big game to enjoy in the wild here.....

We may not call it Bushcraft here, but there is plenty of it.....look at all of the primitive mountain man, muzzleload carrying, rendevous events in this country....plus they have wild game to hunt on top of that!

In my state hunting goes hand in hand with bushcraft. I hunt out of a tent for days, pack everthing in, pack everything out. When you have to carry (or drag) a deer out of the woods yourself then you know you are alive.

By law you can hunt almost anywhere in my state that is not specifically posted "NO HUNTING or TRESSPASSING"

We are still 90% forest here........Too many Massachusets and New York liberals are moving up here though.......they are ruining it for everyone

Hell, in my state, we have over 3000 licensed trappers!

No offense intended.