Woven cottons & their constructions

[addyb]

Here's something that I've always been curious about:

When I look at Ventile, I get the feeling that it's actually quite a loose weave, and only starts to become showerproof once it's saturated. Of course, this is how it works, once wet, the fibres swell, blah blah blah there's a hundred threads on this topic.

On the other hand, when I look at proofed gabardine (Burberry, anyone?) I get the feeling that's it's actually a much tighter weave that Ventile and it's that weave coupled with a good proofing that gives it it's water shedding properties.

In that case, why was Ventile even created? Why didn't the RAF simply make immersion suits from proofed gabardine instead of heckling the Manchester Institute to work with oxford woven cottons?

Yes, this is a slightly useless thread and this forum gets far too many of these, but I think this is probably the first time this particular question has been posed.

Adam

 

[Toddy]

No , I don't think it's useless thread; it's a valid question

I really don't know the answer, but I do know that if you tear twill gaberdine it's almost impossible to stop it fraying without some sort of fabric glue with the darning.
Ventile will hole or eventually wear through at seams, but that hole frays gently around the edges and just stops there. I think it's to do with the simplicity of the weave. I've got a ventile jacket that had acid spashed on the sleeve over 20 years ago, the holes haven't gotten any bigger and the jacket (double layer, only the top one was holed) has been well worna dnwashed countless times since.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Graham O]

Ventile is very tightly woven. Across the width of the fabric, typically 60", there are 12000 individual fibres running the length of the cloth. There is a Swiss product called Etaproof, which actually has more but is little known.
The gaberdine relies on its proofing for resistance to water penetration, something which can wear off and allow water to penetrate.
If one considers only what happens when the ejecting pilot lands in water, then a proofed gaberdine may be sufficient or even better than Ventile. But the pilot may have to live in his immersion suit for an 8 hour shift and the proofed fabric will always be less comfortable than uncoated Ventile.

 

[Graham_S]

another point is that traditional proofing can have a tendency to being flammable. not something a pilot wants to wear. ventile doesn't suffer from this problem.

 

[innocent bystander]

iirc it's the thread that is proofed before the gaberdine is woven...

 

[addyb]

Ahhh....but it makes sense. Proofed fabrics don't last forever, and one thing I know is that once the factory proofing wears off, the over the counter products that one can purcase (Grangers, Nikwax, etc...) don't really seem to work quite as well as that factory finish.

And yes, the burning. The flame. One cannot forget about the bane of any pilots existance.

Thanks for answering that silly question guys!

Adam