Would you polish metal in a lathe using a cloth?

[mrcharly]

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/134..._pay___33_000_after_boy__14__loses_fingertip/

Seems profoundly stupid to me. The boy was *told* to polish the rotating metal by holding a cloth against it.

 

[mousey]

In the article it suggests using a cloth to polish metal in the lathe had been done before with no ill effects, so the practice continued. Seems like you can do something unsafe for a while and get away with it, if you get away with it often enough bad habits become common practice until someone doesn't get away with it.

But when your in school you assume the teachers know what they are doing. [well I did anyway - it wasn't till I was a little older when I started questioning peoples abilities]

Edit///

The older I get the more I realise people are just making it up as they go along and the less I trust people.

 

[Stew]

The man who made no mistakes, never made anything.

While it is sad for the lad that it happened, I actually find it pleasing that he was using a lathe in the first place! I'm 33 now and I remember all the metal and wood lathes being removed from my school as too dangerous. Quite sad for me and I assumed it would be the same all over.

I'm not condoning the accident, however.

 

[Grooveski]

Polishing cloth is a strip of heavy emery cloth. Comes in a range of grades on big rolls(in boxes like pizza boxes) about and inch and a half wide and yeah, is considered a perfectly normal way of finishing a job.

You tear off a length of a foot and a half(or more depending on the job size), lower an end down the back of the job, reach under for it with your other hand then draw the ends towards you - polishing the back side of the workpiece. It's a fingertip affair with very little pressure being applied(too much and the cloth cooks and tears up) and is a bit like drying your back by holding two ends of a towel. Your hands are pretty much together (between the guard and the bed)and well clear of the piece.
I commonly rest my left hand pinky on the front bed edge and use my 'free' right hand to control the cloth. Others prefer both hands free - finish with a flourish!

Have never had my hands pulled towards the piece. Have had the cloth yanked from my fingers many times...
An unfortunate accident for sure. There's very little safe about operating heavy machinery and a million ways for things to go wrong. Poor lad.

 

[mrcharly]

From what you say, Grooveski, it comes down to making sure you put the cloth on the correct side, so that fingers aren't drawn in if the cloth 'catches'. I can go with that.

Still think it isn't something I'd have schoolchildren doing.

 

[mick91]

The way grooveski is suggesting I would say is by far the safest option. Holding a cloth in your hand and polishing like hand to piece is a great way to jettison unwanted digits and appendages, it should never be encouraged. Buffing wheel on a grinder would probably be a better option imo. But then some people do seem ignorant to safe machining methods. A bloke in screwfix suggested I wear safety gloves using a bench grinder. He said it with the best intentions but still a very dangerous method

 

[XRV John]

Do this in my lathe. It's ok to hold the emery or wet n dry around the object at very slow speeds but at higher speeds the "shoeshine boy" method is the safest

 

[Mykos]

I also do this type of operation often on the metal lathe. Both with emery cloth or with cloth loaded with polish. It very much requires practice and caution. I wouldn't let an inexperienced machinist do this without constant supervision.

It is the best way to polish the outside of a cylinder though.

 

[Adze]

£28 large in 'prosecution costs' - that's about a term's worth of fees for the prosecutor's kids at whichever fee paying school they attend. Hopefully their DT dept. is nicely funded and has automated CNC type lathes instead of those 'dangerous' manual types.

 

[sasquatch]

I use emery cloth every day at work on lathes. However, I was taught not to drop it behind the spinning work piece. Reason being if it goes slack and folds on itself it'll pull your hand in. When a work piece is spinning I hold the top and bottom of the emery strip in each hand and move it forwards towards the metal. As the metal is spinning up towards it the emery can't bind on itself pulling you in. There are many ways to skin a rabbit and all that.

Lathes are dangerous and there's always a risk, some jobs carry inherent danger and your chance of injury can only be minimised by paying attention at all times. Things can go wrong quick, this lad was unfortunate in the sense that his day went downhill fast but it could have been far worse than a finger. Hope he heals soon and kids still get to use lathes at school. You can lose fingers in folding beach chairs and similar, best to make all aware of exactly what can go wrong and how best to avoid it.

 

[petrochemicals]

Only if done safey. Is there not an apppareent risk of entanglement? Should you your fingers to feed a table saw blade? Would you use a drill press wearing a scarf. The kids shouldn't get to use lathes as the teachers aren't capable of using one.

 

[sasquatch]

Who says the teacher is incapable of using a lathe? There's always risk of entanglement with a lathe, hence the need for constant vigilance. Human nature dictates you can preach/practice safety until you're blue in the face but accidents will still happen on occasion.

 

[petrochemicals]

Who says the teacher is incapable of using a lathe? There's always risk of entanglement with a lathe, hence the need for constant vigilance. Human nature dictates you can preach/practice safety until you're blue in the face but accidents will still happen on occasion.

I says the teacher is incapable. Being told to hold a long piece of stuff against the work is surely a neglection of vigilance. People will do nothing unless instructed, and when instructed will perform insane acts under the guide of authority. A powerful thing authority, and not always understood by thoes in the position of. I only hope they still remember to make the boys take there ties off otherwise there may be a few ligature strangulations in the offing.

 

[HillBill]

When i'm polishing air rifle pistons, i put the piston in a drill, and hold the wet n dry/micromesh against it on a cork block. Similar thing. Works well.

Lad will have done something wrong, common sense aint all that common these days.

 

[sasquatch]

Thousands of students in years of teaching and one accident. Not sure that equates to bad teaching as much as the law of averages. Your attitude sounds on par with modern parenting vs education, kids can do no wrong, it's always the teacher's fault.

I can say from first hand experience you can explain the importance of safety until you're blue in the face, first time you turn your back they're doing things dangerously wrong because some people always know better than you. Fortunately not all people are like that, the ones that know everything don't last long in the trade for whatever reason...

 

[Grooveski]

Thanks for explaining how to do it properly sasquatch.
...and for managing to word it so I didn't feel like a total pillock. I've done it that way myself at times and you're dead right - a file-like approach is far lower risk than shoe-shining.

I mind the college briefing for using cloth being quite a serious affair. That it was a light pinch hold was stressed - fingers should be at about 90° rather than a claw-like grip. There was talk of combating any instinct you may have to try to save things(if it got away from you - let it! Last thing you wanted to do if an end escaped was tighten your grip on the other and try to pull it out - if it snagged at that moment it'd haul your hand in).

A couple of weeks later there was a 'gather round' moment where one of the lads was getting a dressing down and the rest of us were getting things reinforced. He'd torn off a little too much cloth and rather than rip it down to length had absent-mindedly wrapped the excess around an index finger a couple of times and was merrily polishing away like that....

 

[sasquatch]

The original post posed a question, various people using this specific equipment have said yes they would use emery cloth to polish metal on a lathe or drill. It's an accepted practice in machine/engineering shops the world over. Yes it requires attention, but yes it's done on a regular basis. Rather than be judge, jury and executioner on a teacher's capability to use a lathe I think we should be applauding the fact that there are still schools out there that teach real life skills.

The unfortunate thing is it's a dangerous environment and I'm sure the teacher goes out of his way to stress that physical harm is a reality if correct procedure isn't followed at all times. I truly feel for the kid that learned quick in the school of hard knocks and I also believe the teacher will have had many a sleepless night over this incident. It's worst case scenario for him really. I just hope the whole real life skills isn't shut down due to one incident we don't know all the facts about. That would be the real shame...

I can't say the method I described is the best way to do it Grooveski, it's just the best I know of with some evidence to back it based on what I do. What works for one instance may not be the best in others. Even following the safest approach I bleed and get burned every day at work and that's no exaggeration. Saying that, I wouldn't pack in engineering and welding for anything. It's all part of the job and well worth the pain and effort when you build something cool. I'll take that job satisfaction over a cubicle job every day of the week

 

[mrcharly]

I'm the OP.

I've also used metal and wood lathes and thought myself moderately knowledgeable about them. I've been corrected in my opinion.

I absolutely agree with sasquatch about the law of averages here.

 

[mr dazzler]

When i'm polishing air rifle pistons, i put the piston in a drill, and hold the wet n dry/micromesh against it on a cork block. Similar thing. Works well.

The only time I polished any metal on my lathe was when I wanted to clean up some steel tubing I was making into ferrules for big chisels. Each short section was press-fit onto a cylidrical wooden support, which was in turn supported by the lathe centre on the tail stock. I used emery paper which I folded around a 2 x 1 lath so it was more like a "file" to hold it. I removed the tool rest and its supporting bracket as a precaution. The job worked very well, very fast and efficient .

 

[Stew]

People will do nothing unless instructed,

What?!?!? Someone obviously forgot to tell my kids this fact!