Wolves & Yellowstone

[Elen Sentier]

Very good prog on BBC4 tonight at 7pm - unfortunately not available on iPlayer at the mo . May be on Youtube ???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qnp5c

Scientists seem to be amazed at how having the wolf back in Yellowstone has improved things for everyone else ... one wonders how the Earth ever managed before we humans came along !!! Very well, in fact

 

[mountainm]

I saw it too, very good.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

For those that don't have access to the BBC

.<br>[video=youtube_share;utYuqZqXXVo]http://youtu.be/utYuqZqXXVo[/video]




Though it has been quite some time now that the positive effects of the re-introduction of wolves in Yellowstone (1995) have been observed both ecologically & financhially as the presence of wolves in the park brings in around 25 millions dollars a year to Yellowstone

 

[Will_]

Thanks for finding and posting the video - I (and my daughter) loved it!
Wish we could have wolves in the UK...

 

[Jared]

[video=youtube;ysa5OBhXz-Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q[/video]

Another short video on how wolf reintroduction has improved Yellowstone.

 

[Elen Sentier]

It's a good little video, isn't it? Have you seen "Living with Wolves" by Jim and Jamie Dutcher? I think they were part of what began the reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone.

 

[Elen Sentier]

Thanks for finding and posting the video - I (and my daughter) loved it!
Wish we could have wolves in the UK...

I so agree about wolves in Britain.

 

[Haggis]

I've not been to Yellowstone, but here in Northern Minnesota wolves are doing quite well; by some accounts there may be 4,000 or more wolves here. I've seen wolves on the lawn around my cottage, (black bears too), and I've seen them in the bush behind the cottage, (black bears too), but one of the most ambivalent sensations ever, is to lay comfortably situated in a tent at night, in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, and to hear a local pack strike up a chorus. There is something quite primal about it. Man, for many millions of years, has lain in his unprotected bed at night and heard the howl of the wolf, and there is at first a sensation of fear, but then, a calmness. At the first wolf cry, I have felt the uncontrollable rise of the hairs on the back of my neck, but as often, I drift off to sleep hoping the howling will not soon stop.

(Black bears on he other hand are sneaky devils, they don't make a sound when creeping around a tent at night.)

 

[cyberwolfuk]

It's a good little video, isn't it? Have you seen "Living with Wolves" by Jim and Jamie Dutcher? I think they were part of what began the reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone.

this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWmOtXSAr1M

 

[GordonM]

Biological carrying capacity and stakeholder acceptance capacity are critical in any wildlife reintroduction / wildlife management plan. Here is some information from the Wyoming Game & Fish Department on wolves and can be found at these links:

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/WILDLIFE-1000380.aspx

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/news-1001287.aspx

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Wildlife/pdfs/WOLF_LIVESTOCK_BROCHURE0003179.pdf

 

[rg598]

Introducing predators in wilderness areas can work out quite well. The problems usually begin when they are not controlled and move past that territory. It is majestic to see a pack of wolves hunt an elk. It is a lot less majestic to see them kill your dog or horse. That's when things get more complicated.

+1 on black bears being sneaky. There is nothing like turning around and seeing one 20 yards behind you.

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[Joonsy]

Wish we could have wolves in the UK.

I so agree about wolves in Britain.

there is a guy called Paul Lister who has made proposals to re-introduce wolves (and various other animals including bears) to his Alladale estate in Scotland, he recieved some support until it was discovered he wants to encirlce a 50,000 acre area with a three metre high electrified fence and charge people a fee to enter the land, particularly high-paying guests up to 20,000 a week, it would have effectively turned open access land into a game park for the privileged with exorbitant entrance fees. if you have heard of the Scottish Walker/climber Cameron McNeish he did a very good informative and interesting write-up about the whole affair and you can see that here http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/news/viewpoint-walking-with-wolves-alladale-estate/009779/

 

[Rich D]

+1 on black bears being sneaky. There is nothing like turning around and seeing one 20 yards behind you.

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turning round and seeing one 2 yards behind you?

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

It's a good little video, isn't it? Have you seen "Living with Wolves" by Jim and Jamie Dutcher? I think they were part of what began the reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone.

I'm reading a book by them about the program they were involved with and misconceptions surrounding wolves and their key role in eco systems and their behaviour. Really very good.

 

[Uilleachan]

Don't tell my crofter pals, but I rather fancy there's room for a couple of small packs in Scotland and I'd be more than up for it. European population estimates for large carnivore distribution:

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/nature/conservation/species/carnivores/conservation_status.htm

Whilst there are a few folk killed by bears every other year in eastern europe (Romania) we don't hear about similar issues with the wolf, despite there being some 15,000+ individual animals estimated to be present within the EU. The greatest 4 legged hazard to the human population is, unfortunately, the domestic dog.

There are however issue for animal husbanders and deer mis managers, stalkers etc. Stock will be lost and stalkers will have to relearn deer movements anywhere the wolves pass. The data from Yellowstone is quite encouraging and the benefits to the native flora, irrefutable. However, as husbanders rely to no small extent on subsidy it wouldn't be beyond the realms of practicality to extend or reconfigure subsidy payments to encourage pasture woodland improvements and compensation for lost livestock (we'd need to keep an eye on that mind, French shepherds are claiming 2,500 lost sheep, and thats not bad going for 100 wolves ). The wolf gets out of hand? shoot them. Improve the habitat and everything benefits, including the lot of upland farmers with grazing animals.

Deer stalking would benefit too, stalking on many estates these days is woefully artificial. A thinning of numbers, a spooked and on the move population; would greatly improve the experience for people who are genuinely into stalking rather than, as it is for most, a modern stalking spectacle more akin to a turkey shoot. I tender that the only people really experiencing true stalking these days, are those who still poach for the pot on the hill, and there aren't many of those at that these days.

 

[santaman2000]

....... Whilst there are a few folk killed by bears every other year in eastern europe (Romania) we don't hear about similar issues with the wolf, despite there being some 15,000+ individual animals estimated to be present within the EU. The greatest 4 legged hazard to the human population is, unfortunately, the domestic dog.......

I'm not absolutely certain, but I believe I remember reading somewhere that it was domestic cattle that killed more humans than any othe animal.

 

[santaman2000]

.....he data from Yellowstone is quite encouraging and the benefits to the native flora, irrefutable......

Actually, I know of several ranchers in the West that beg to disagree.

 

[santaman2000]

......Deer stalking would benefit too, stalking on many estates these days is woefully artificial. A thinning of numbers, a spooked and on the move population; would greatly improve the experience for people who are genuinely into stalking rather than, as it is for most, a modern stalking spectacle more akin to a turkey shoot. I tender that the only people really experiencing true stalking these days, are those who still poach for the pot on the hill, and there aren't many of those at that these days.

The deer population here could certainly use thinning (as coulf the feral hogs) Re-introducing wolves (Red Wolves here) and Panthers would probably be a great help.

But comparing deer hunting to a Turkey Shoot? You've obviously never been turkey hunting. Deer are realatively dumb creatures of habit and easily hunted. Turkey on the other hand are very wary and require full concentration and skill.

 

[Turnstone]

Usually I don't watch TV in the middle of the week during the day, but today I was down with migraines and stumbled upon that wolf & yellowstone film (with German comments). Fascinating what happened, I really enjoyed watching it.

 

[Jared]

Newscientist article on the wolves and their indirect effects

http://www.newscientist.com/article...ntimidation-changes-ecosystems.html?full=true