Winter Mountain Leader Award now the same as a university degree

C

Chitterne

Guest
In the early 80s a UK Bachelor's degree was about equivalent to a US Master's degree.

It slowly dropped to US bachelor's equivalent.

And then to about the equivalence of 80's A levels.

And now....the equivalence of a walking qualification??!!


The World's gone mad! :)
 

John Fenna

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Oct 7, 2006
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And they say that "dumbing down" is not happening!?
I wish that I had finished my training and taken the award now!
What is a summer ticket worth?
 

Toddy

Mod
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Jan 21, 2005
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Tbh I think it was high time it was given a decent recognition. I had a friend at Uni who was doing the Mountain Leaders course through Glenmore Lodge while doing a joint honours degree in Geology and Geography. He reckoned that the Mountain Leadership one was harder, more disciplined and in some ways more critical that he got things 'right' than the official Uni degree.

cheers,
Toddy
 

BOD

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Well that's fine by me.

What is more important is the rigour and standards set for the discipline not its social status.

Its is good that instructors know that they can fail someone for not being up to the mark rather than feel that they are obliged to give them a leg up.

I wonder if an Ocean yachtmaster ticket is seen as comparable
 
lots of these type qualifications can now be converted into a equiv academic level one

i know i can get a NVQ (whatever Level 3 i think cant remember but def not a whole degree ) for my PADI Diving instructor rating justs a small admin Fee :rolleyes: :D and its also acceptable on some courses as direct credit (yes its alos retrospective )
i never bothered as 1 i dont need to and 2 if i did i have the PADI qual anyway and its known its equiv so why bother paying for a NVQ cert to say so as well :rolleyes:

ATB

Duncan
 

John Fenna

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So - could my diplomas in Fashion design (Btec) Aromatherapy, MLTB summer, my level four canoe coach, my credits in acting from Aberystwyth Uni, diplomas in healing etc be worth anything in "the real world"?
 

Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
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No reason why not. They are all the result of learning processes, were subject to academic rigour, and werre awarded by acknowledged providers / institutes.

Surprising really how much one accrues, qualification wise over the years, isn't it ?:D


cheers,
Toddy
 
diplomas (BTEC ) are already a recognised Qualification

NVQ is to give academic levels to normally non academic stuff

your MLTB and canoe stuff may qualify if the certifying body has been checked by NVQ etc

tho i /dont see the point in getting a equiv cert it dosnt add any more to teh qual etc its just an application form and a fee

and would only be use if say you wanted to do a Degree course and needed A level or BTEC OND level cert as an entry requirement you can now also use a NVQ level 3 as well etc if you failed A levels or didnt do them etc

alos note this is a Scottish Education thing ie a SCQF

and NVQ only covers England Wales & NI etc

im sure they are comparable but the levels again may differ between them

ATB

Duncan
 
And they say that "dumbing down" is not happening!?
I wish that I had finished my training and taken the award now!
What is a summer ticket worth?

Just coming back to this.

Dumbing down of what?

The ML qualifications aren't, nor should they be, easy to get. You need to be spot on with the techniques that should ensure the safety of your client group.

It is a professional qualification now with its own recognised association. It'd be interesting to know how many people who qualify for the ML or other MLTB / SMBLT awards go on and use their qualifications either professionally or in a volunteer basis in comparison to those who cant find employment in relation to the degree thay have?
 

Limaed

Full Member
Apr 11, 2006
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Some intresting responses here guys. I personally agree with the move, I think it shows that the individual has the capacity to study to a certain level in a non academic subject.
I also agree that the ML Winter is deserving of its status, after all most people that pass the assesment have certainly put in the hill time. The route to gaining the award is an accumilation of hard won experience backed up by solid research and specific training on the hill, you simply can't pass just by reading manuals.
I hope in future that more outdoor quals are acredited in the same way, it would certainly make sense. Ed
 
may or may not be usfull as an academic qualification ??

but its a good thing to recognise ability where its found

I have no idea if ateh MLTB winter is worth the same as a 3 yr normal degree course (which would also require a 2yr A level/BTEC/ NVQ3 course etc etc etc)
but thats what the assesment they have done shows (certainly wouldnt want to be in the mountains in winter with a Numpty etc)

im happy that my Dive instructor qualification is rated same as A levels etc and would be suprised if i was equiv to a degree it also takes a while to attain and means 6 levels of dive course (and a lot of £££s :rolleyes: ) to get to as well as logged time in water etc and you can operate in quite a dangerous zone as the amount of HSE will testify to etc

i would think most outdoor instructor rating should be in the NVQ 3 level etc just depends on the operating bodys to have a auditable structured teaching method and want to actually do it

as i say the only reason i can see for it is to give an equvalancey to qualify to apply for higher academic courses

i dont need it to do the next instructor level up or get a job teaching diving but maybe to apply to do a Degree in leisure industry etc :rolleyes: or some such (then i dont like the fact i have to bpay for a cert to say so when i have my original Dive inst cert ho hum national bodies need income to i guess )


ATB

Duncan
 

drewdunnrespect

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Aug 29, 2007
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no i agree it should have the status it rightly deserves cos its a hard won fight to get it and anyone who has it tell you so with out the time on the hill you wont get the qualifaction drew

ps i dont have the qualifaction but would love to do it and am looking in to doing the summer one and then the winter one
 

Tiley

Life Member
Oct 19, 2006
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This is very interesting. I am slightly confused by the perceived need to compare things that are not similar and somehow fuse 'extra value' into them.

All the mountain qualifications are hard work - and they keep you working hard with the almost ceaseless update courses that you need to attend, if you want to keep your ML (Summer and Winter), MIA, SPA or MIC alive and usable. In that respect alone, they should be worth more than, say, a bachelor's degree.

This last is three, or sometimes four, years of study that involves exams and/or continual assessment. After your finals, you have a ceremony where you wear a bat cloak and look slightly self-conscious while your parents take photos. But does your university ever come back a few years later and check that you can still analyse poetry or work out coefficients still? No. After a number of years, you can actually pay to upgrade your Oxbridge degree from a BA to an MA. No exams and hardly any writing other than that on the cheque. It does mean you can get rid of the rabbit's fur on your academic hood, though!

What with the, let's say, 'changing' demands and standards of academic courses in schools and therefore, by extension, universities, is it fair to compare a hard-earned, consistently tough and committing outdoor qualification, be it for the mountains, sailing, canoeing, kayaking, diving or whatever, that requires ongoing training and reassessment, with GCSE's, A levels or degrees?

I think that qualifications in the outdoor industry should achieve both a higher profile and, nost definitely, a higher status but it would be a mistake to compare them with other, more widely available academic qualifications. A fish is always a fish, never an orange; even if you painted it orange, it's still a fish.;)
 

John Fenna

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Oct 7, 2006
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Just coming back to this.

Dumbing down of what?

My comment was more aimed at the comparisson between the academic qualies mentioned.
I have worked for and earned several non academic qualifications including pre 80s A-levels a summer MLTB and level 4 open canoe coach.
The Outdoor quallies were by far the hardest to gain - but then I never went to Uni.....:)
 

Limaed

Full Member
Apr 11, 2006
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I kind of agree that an ML has nothing to do with university.
I think for myself the bonus of having the ML recognised at this level is that it would add somthing to a C.V in future.
Aside from the outdoor world, having the ML (or other outdoor qual) probably means little to a future employer, where as having an ML(W) (SCQF9) may help said future employer understand that the potential employee has the capacity to study to this level.
I didn't go to uni or finish my A levels yet ive got my ML(W), hence the reason I posted the thread.
As I said, I believe it would be great to get more outdoor quals recognised especially for those of us who didn't go into higher education.
Regards Ed
 

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