why pay that for a knife

[boland magyar]

i have no problem with people making money....you pay for what you get....
but we seem to have this issue about the price of rm goods every month, i would like to see his answers to all these issues as he must be aware of these but i dont think we will. its a shame that he dont as he is respected in the bushcraft comunity but the issue of price for his goods will never go away.
so come on ray answer your fans
boland

 

[big_daddy_merc]

does Ray mears credit all the hundreds of people who taught him his skills? does Alan Wood? Does JK Rowling credit her year one Englsih teacher? No...
what about the guys who minded the metals in the engines you rebuild?
Ray designed the shape, Alan made the knife, Wilkinson took the risk and spent a shed load of cash up front in tooling up to make the branded knives.
The Guys on Evilbay spent their hard earned cash upfront in the hope that someone would pay them enough to cover their costs. My wife sells first additions on ebay, sometime she makes a killing and sometimes a loss.
Should she restrict her profit margins just because when the books were first published, they only cost £3.00

massive companys never take big risks without for form of insurance, and yes Ray does credit the people how have show him his bushcrafting skill and that one of the manythings about the man i like he knows where he comes from and how he got there, and by the time things get to ebay the the profit has gone for the item, as no-one gos on there to pay full price

 

[British Red]

Yep!

Does the guy who grew the apple in Tesco get all the money?

Does he heck as like!

If you don't like the price of an Alan Wood or WS Woodlore, don't buy it! If you want all the money to go to the craftsman, but direct from the craftsman!

Rarely, very rarely do I get on a hobby horse about this stuff. This time I will! Why? Because of my friend. My friend is known here as Cegga. Cegga is in the top three axe makers in the world (in my opinion). He makes axes for members of this forum. I designed them. I sell them (only here). Heres how it goes.

Cost of axe. £40.

Cost of postage £15

Cost of helve & mask £5 (roughly)

Paypal Fees £1

Materials £5 (ish)

Labour on a custom made, forge, heat treated, ground and designed axe - £14. Reckon you can forge, HT, grind and fit an axe head for £14? After tax? The guy who flips burgers makes more money!

I've sold two batches of axes here. Third (and last) is on the way. Money for me - down every penny I ever put into the project! I make more money in an hour on my "day job" than I could make in a week on custom sharps.

Seriously, make a custom knife, bring it to market, make money on it and I'll salute you. Or an axe! In fact, just bring one to market and I'll salute you!

Red

 

[big_daddy_merc]

hardly any stone mason have ever been given any credit, the real people, the builders are long fogotten, only the designers or clarks of works are/were ever remembered. Who built St Paul's Cathedral?


was it Christopher Wren?

or the thousands of nameless builders labourers and stone masons

mason have mark so you could at least find out who it was

 

[big_daddy_merc]

I've sold two batches of axes here. Third (and last) is on the way. Money for me - down every penny I ever put into the project! I make more money in an hour on my "day job" than I could make in a week on custom sharps.

Seriously, make a custom knife, bring it to market, make money on it and I'll salute you. Or an axe! In fact, just bring one to market and I'll salute you!

Red

thats the point you should get your money back and gain some as well but cos' your not a world famous celeb then you don't get the credit you deserve and i don't think it's fair on you for putting all the effort and love of what you do for someone to go " well your not so an so" and you get nothing, please beleave me i really do admire your skill and talent for what you do, and i am in no way taking the p*ss over what you do, if you went to a big company like wilkinson sword would they even give you the time of day even though your as good as what they produce

 

[boland magyar]

red
i agree that to make your hobby into a buisness is hard, but it would be nice for alan or ray to give there reasons for there price of the knife so that these threads about the said knifes would stop once and for all.....you pay for what you get and its not the knife its the hands holding it that counts
boland

 

[ArkAngel]

Yep!

Does the guy who grew the apple in Tesco get all the money?

Does he heck as like!

If you don't like the price of an Alan Wood or WS Woodlore, don't buy it! If you want all the money to go to the craftsman, but direct from the craftsman!

Rarely, very rarely do I get on a hobby horse about this stuff. This time I will! Why? Because of my friend. My friend is known here as Cegga. Cegga is in the top three axe makers in the world (in my opinion). He makes axes for members of this forum. I designed them. I sell them (only here). Heres how it goes.

Cost of axe. £40.

Cost of postage £15

Cost of helve & mask £5 (roughly)

Paypal Fees £1

Materials £5 (ish)

Labour on a custom made, forge, heat treated, ground and designed axe - £14. Reckon you can forge, HT, grind and fit an axe head for £14? After tax? The guy who flips burgers makes more money!

I've sold two batches of axes here. Third (and last) is on the way. Money for me - down every penny I ever put into the project! I make more money in an hour on my "day job" than I could make in a week on custom sharps.

Seriously, make a custom knife, bring it to market, make money on it and I'll salute you. Or an axe! In fact, just bring one to market and I'll salute you!

Red

Ok so neither myself or BDM could make a custom knife, i certainly don't have the skills, equipment or inclination. But as we both know there are people on this very site that could make you a woodie clone using exactly the same steel with the same grind, tapered tang, rubber liners, burl handles and sheath to your wearing preference well under the price of an evilbay woodie, and IMO it would be a much much better knife
It's that last little bit, the blade markings that people are paying for, to say "i own a RM knife" or to hold onto it to increase in value.

Sooner or later either Ray's popularity will decrease or new supplies will make the price plummet (or i could be wrong and they will always exchange hands for silly money )
Remember the Jaguar XJ220 a few years back? a 220mph £500,000 supercar.
A good example can now be picked up for the price of the top of the range mondeo.

The fact that you do not make any money out of your "part time" job is a credit to you, i suspect a lot of equipment on here goes for lower prices than normal because we are all a nice bunch that want to help each other out ( <cough> Dragonfly <cough > )

Nothing lasts forever

 

[C_Claycomb]

Boland,
What are you on about?

The price that some random person on ebay is asking for a knife that was manufactured by Wilkinson Sword has absolutely nothing to do with Ray or Woodlore. Others have explained how supply and demand works, and what collectors will pay, but all that has been said before and we still have folks blaming Ray, or even Alan Wood, for the prices that people pay for the knives on Ebay. Astounding.

As for other goods on the Woodlore site, well, as with any business, they are entitled to charge whatever they like, and if people think it is too much, don't they don't have to shop there. It isn't even like it is worth moaning about what Woodlore sell stuff for if it is possible to buy it elsewhere in the UK.

I am not a huge fan of the Woodlore style knife, and when it was for sale by WS I commented that for the same money, in dollars, you could get a really nice handmade to your own spec. Now of course I wish I had bought a dozen of them Sure it is a very basic tool, but the prices now aren't to do with them being tools and it is pointless to compare something that people are buying and selling as a collectable with something that other people buy as a cheap, semi-disposable tool that they don't mind beating on! The value is in the eye of the beholder, but even if you don't think it has value, clearly other people do What is there to debate about in that ?

 

[British Red]

red
i agree that to make your hobby into a buisness is hard, but it would be nice for alan or ray to give there reasons for there price of the knife so that these threads about the said knifes would stop once and for all.....you pay for what you get and its not the knife its the hands holding it that counts
boland

Actually, thats the point ! No, they dont have to justify a thing! They know what this item cost them, they know the sweat and tears that goes into an individually designed, hand made item. They price it accordingly. If you think its not worth it, don't buy it. Easy. Same as if someone has a rare second hand item. Why should they sell it to you for less than someone else will pay? You think its over priced? Don't bid! simple.

Yet these items sell. So other people value them more than you do. Surely that makes them the fool.? Keep using your Mora! Or comission your maker of choice to make whatever you want and pay them.

My point is this, if someone values something more highly than you do, then that is what its worth. If its not worth that to you, dandy. If you don't value the item that highly, equally great. Give Alan Wood a call. Go on the waiting list. Pay for his work when it turns up. Factor in the problems with Allan Blade or (various other) bankruptcies. Or pay a premium and buy one today. Either way, if someone is willing to pay more than you for a handmade item that is rare, and you prefer to pay a lot less for a factory item, good luck to you. Don't decry those who like something made to measure though (any more than you would the guy with a nicer house, car or whatever). A £200,000 car is silly to me, but those that have the cash and want one - fair play to them!

Oh and as for me, it is a hobby, if I want money, I'l do real work for it - designing is just for fun!

Red

 

[C_Claycomb]

To add...

but it would be nice for alan or ray to give there reasons for there price of the knife so that these threads about the said knifes would stop once and for all.....

But it wouldn't, because it has been spelled out on here often enough by people who have asked those questions directly, but here we are again.

If you want to get a good understanding of how knives are priced, there are some good threads on the US boards, particularly those moderated by Les Robertson on Knife Network Forum. While there are reasons for charging, it really isn't any of the customer's business to demand that the maker spell them all out.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Red, you say it so much better than I do !!

 

[taylor27]

[
[, i spend more on KFC than i would on a Mora.

I think it's a shame that the lesser well known but possible better makes are left in the dust of "named" items[/QUOTE]


i could buy 3 moras on wot i get frm kfc

 

[British Red]

The fact that you do not make any money out of your "part time" job is a credit to you, i suspect a lot of equipment on here goes for lower prices than normal because we are all a nice bunch that want to help each other out .

No, no credit at all. I have had fantastic items on here designed and made by others. Singteck and Topknot and Shinken to name but three. The difference is these three guys actually make stuff! I just draw stuff based on my own experience and clever people like Cegga and Stu make it. If other people like it enough to buy one, great! If not, well, who can blame them!

Thats sort of my point. My (stupidly inferior) contribution is to design and offer a few items at perhaps less than Gransfors or Woodlore can offer them. In return people as mentioned have provided me with great items at far less than commercial prices. If you don't like the world of "for profit" (which, ultimately, we all have to live in), don't bang on about it. Design, make, buy, offer, something better. Or don't complain.

Red

 

[British Red]

Red, you say it so much better than I do !!

You are kidding right?

I'm absolutely "cacking it" right now - waiting to see how this wee puppy turns out!

No complaints on the work stu has put into developing the prototype, but it has opened my eyes into whats involved in developing a new knife! I may well stick to axes in future

Red

 

[Gailainne]

I've said it before, and I will say it again, between the two of your I comfortable expect something that will not only have form and fuction, but will be a "user" , something people will turn to first for a task.

Stephen

 

[Carcajou Garou]

If I valued that knife I would certainly buy it, quality/craftmanship, value for money tendered. I have my eye on a similar blade for my son's lady, just got to start to proccess of ordering it. They become heirlooms to pass on to the next generation scratches and all, builds memories and character. :yo:


"i spend more on KFC than i would on a Mora."
But how well would that drum stick cut a willow?

 

[Timinwales]

I'd love to own a Woodlore, and I have to admit to myself that part of the reason is the name attached to it and the quality and providence that name imparts. However cards on the table I cannot afford one and thats all there is to it.
I do have one of Paul Bakers knives commisioned down the phone belive it or not, and then made for me, to me it cost alot but almost two years on it's worth every penny I paid (again to me). I bumped into Paul at Weston Park last September and thanked him personally for the time and effort he had put in and to my amazement he produced a picture of the knife he had made for me from a box he had under his stall. The knife is a tool, the knife Paul made for me is 'my' tool yes it cost more than a factory produced one, no it proberbly is'nt that much more functional than a factory equivilent but it is just as I asked it to be, and does just what I want it to.
Had I been able to a: justify and b: afford a Woodlore then I would have missed out on the Bushman TZ and shelled out an extra £150 or there abouts.

Cheers Tim

 

[twisted firestarter]

whats the big deal with the cost of RM knives? It's all about supply and demand and there is a lot of demand for his knives. Mora knives are mass produced so the supply is easy to keep up with. I can understand how to some people it seems daft that for the same money as a RM knife you could buy at least 30 mora's but then again how many first class stamps would you have to buy to swap for a penny black

In a few years I bet people wil be posting on this forum reflecting on how they wish they had bought one back in '07. Just look at the RM first edition book!

 

[Shinken]

Well the woodlore is handmade by a knifemaker, what your paying for is a knife with soul. A factory made knife just dosnt have that.

 

[BorderReiver]

Yep!

Does the guy who grew the apple in Tesco get all the money?

Does he heck as like!

If you don't like the price of an Alan Wood or WS Woodlore, don't buy it! If you want all the money to go to the craftsman, but direct from the craftsman!

Rarely, very rarely do I get on a hobby horse about this stuff. This time I will! Why? Because of my friend. My friend is known here as Cegga. Cegga is in the top three axe makers in the world (in my opinion). He makes axes for members of this forum. I designed them. I sell them (only here). Heres how it goes.

Cost of axe. £40.

Cost of postage £15

Cost of helve & mask £5 (roughly)

Paypal Fees £1

Materials £5 (ish)

Labour on a custom made, forge, heat treated, ground and designed axe - £14. Reckon you can forge, HT, grind and fit an axe head for £14? After tax? The guy who flips burgers makes more money!

I've sold two batches of axes here. Third (and last) is on the way. Money for me - down every penny I ever put into the project! I make more money in an hour on my "day job" than I could make in a week on custom sharps.

Seriously, make a custom knife, bring it to market, make money on it and I'll salute you. Or an axe! In fact, just bring one to market and I'll salute you!

Red

If we still had Rep points I'd give you some.