Water purification woes...

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Hi guys, I came to my plot which I recently bought of 2 acre open land and 1 woodland approx.

My huge problem is water right now.

I had already been living out my van for about a year so thought I would be all set to get myself set up but of course the diesel cooker in my van breaks the second day I am at my land!!!

I have really been struggling since. I am kicking myself for not bringing the optimus 8r (it is that or one of the very similar design ones of the period) that my mum had. I toyed with the idea and almost did and thought "na why would I need it when my diesel cooker in the van has been so reliable?" Doh!

I did take the trangia but it has been a nightmare to boil water on it. There is a stream nearby and filling my approx 4 litre cookpot with stream water and putting over the trangia it takes literally like 4 to 5 hours to reach a boil! This is with the lid on btw.

I did not have a windshield in my other attempts but yesterday I tried making one out of mud around the trangia and cooked on a smaller pot and it still took about 1 and 30 minutes for just a litre or 2. That has lasted me about 12 hours and I am out again.

This is like my life now. Everything revolving around boiling water. It sucks because there is so much I want to do on the land and just a slave to this process and if I make the water it only lasts about 2 days and back again to the agonisingly long boil times.

I have tried making fires but tbh I feel self conscious as there are neighbours nearby and although they seem very friendly it feels like I am drawing attention to myself by lighting fires. Also the stench they make I hate myself too. What are the rules about it btw? I read online it is 'ok' to light fires in your back garden since bbqs are so popular so does the same apply on your land?

I have really considered just driving over an hour back to just pick up the petrol optimus as since it takes 5+ hours to cook water anyway I could have been there and back at least 2x to pick up the stove.

I am looking to get a proper setup with a gravity filtration system but that could be a week or two away due to accessibility of those things and of course no postal address for a patch of land.

In the meantime I need water all the time. I know I could just go to the nearest store and buy some bottles but that would feel like a small failure.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Just back from visiting friends living off grid on land in Wales. They have spring water piped into their home but use one of these for non-boiled drinking.

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Filtering to remove Protozoa and cysts and chemical treating to deal with bacteria and viruses also seems like it would be more efficient than boiling cauldron quantities.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Sorry, just realised the only question in all that post was about fires.

Fire isn’t the problem, it’s smoke.

Garden bonfires: the rules

The rules about having garden bonfires, burning domestic waste, complaining about a neighbour's bonfire, fines

www.gov.uk

Nuisance smoke: how councils deal with complaints

How councils deal with complaints about smoke from premises that's a statutory nuisance, smoke that's exempt and how smoke can be assessed.

www.gov.uk

 

[Glow_worm]

A kelly kettle produces little smoke after the first couple of minutes, unlikely to upset anybody if used in an appropriate place on your three acre plot? Dry fuel is essential, but a 1.5l model would make short work of purifying water.

A gravity water filter is also a good bet, as mentioned above- the fine ceramic outer shell prevents living nasties getting through, and activated charcoal inside absorbs pollutants. Flow rate is very slow though.

Regards fires and smoke, it entirely depends on the situation. If the surrounding land is vacant or largely so, and you're on good terms with the neighbours it won't be a problem. If people don't want you there it could be a good excuse for them to try and cause trouble.

 

[Glow_worm]

Another point, sorry to be the bearer of bad news- an Optimus 8R isn't really suitable for regularly purifying large amounts of water- a 4l pot is too large for the stove and the excessive thermal feedback will likely cause it to over pressurise. It will also cost a fortune to run, as modern petrol isn't a suitable fuel anymore and naptha is expensive...

A calor propane cylinder and suitable burner, or more labour intensive but fun Kelly Kettle would suit much better.

 

[Tengu]

Id use a kelly kettle.

 

[GreyCat]

This is good advice:

A kelly kettle produces little smoke after the first couple of minutes, unlikely to upset anybody if used in an appropriate place on your three acre plot? Dry fuel is essential, but a 1.5l model would make short work of purifying water.

A gravity water filter is also a good bet, as mentioned above- the fine ceramic outer shell prevents living nasties getting through, and activated charcoal inside absorbs pollutants. Flow rate is very slow though.

Regards fires and smoke, it entirely depends on the situation. If the surrounding land is vacant or largely so, and you're on good terms with the neighbours it won't be a problem. If people don't want you there it could be a good excuse for them to try and cause trouble.

From previous posts on another thread, I get the impression you are living in a van on a piece of land in Wales that you've recently acquired.

On one hand, if you have woodland, then fuel for a decent firepit that you use for boiling water shouldn't be an issue, but equally getting caught by the local authority for living on land without permission could be more of an issue....... and if you intend to be "discrete" living without permission on land yet you're struggling for water purification, I'm not sure how well you've thought out your project*?

GC

*PS. I suggest you go to a supermarket and buy 10 x 5-litre bottles of water. At a use rate of 3L a day, That should keep you for at least a couple of weeks whilst you sort a system for purification filtration out. Plus you have some containers for water storage afterwards.

 

[EdS]

Just back from visiting friends living off grid on land in Wales. They have spring water piped into their home but use one of these for non-boiled drinking.

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Filtering to remove Protozoa and cysts and chemical treating to deal with bacteria and viruses also seems like it would be more efficient than boiling cauldron quantities.

Murky business. Berkey and the EPA.

Berkey system users have been asking Watermatters about the current debacle between Berkey and the EPA. Here is our perspective. Berkey was issued a Stop Sale Order by the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency USA) in December 2023 due to Berkey’s unregistered use of silver in Black Berkey...

www.watermatters.ca

 

[EdS]

Are just visiting or "living" on the land?

If you visiting just take containers of potable water. If residing you'll need to comply with Private Water Supply Regulations 2016

The Private Water Supplies (England) Regulations 2016

These Regulations, which apply in England, transpose requirements of Council Directive 98/83/EC on the quality of water intended for human consumption (OJ No L 330, 5.12.1998, p 32) and Council Directive 2013/51/Euratom laying down requirements for the protection of the health of the general...

www.legislation.gov.uk

Private water supplies

A private water supply is any supply which is not provided by a water undertaker. Find out more about how we monitor private water supplies.

www.northyorks.gov.uk

 

[ged]

Back at the beginning of this century a friend of mine bought a house in the Scottish hills about 20 miles from Dundee.

On one visit the water supply slowed to just a trickle from the tap. It wasn't until then that I knew that whenever I went there what I'd been drinking was from a private supply, not mains water.

My friend asked me if I'd like to accompany him up the hill to the source of the supply, to help him lift the heavy cast iron lid which covered what turned out to be basically an open pit with one end of a pipe sticking out of the side of it near the bottom. The other end was down the hill, at his house.

There was no pump, no filter, nor anything like that. Water trickled into the pit from the hillside, and whenever the level was above the open end of the pipe (which was pretty much all the time) it got into the pipe, and fifty vertical metres of gravity continued to work its mysterious magic.

On lifting the lid the reason for the problem had immediately become obvious.

A dead frog was stuck in the open end of the pipe.

I extracted the deceased, and normal service resumed.

Despite drinking frog-rinsing water for several days, none of us had ever suffered any ills.

What I'm saying is that it *is* possible to be too fussy about things.

Anyway this is Wales, right? In the OP's situation I'd be looking at hanging a tarp from a few trees and catching the rainwater in a large container. For drinking I'd probably filter it with something like a Millbank bag but not for anything else. I'd be cautious of drinking stream water, even if it's filtered and boiled, until I knew that there wasn't likely to be anything in it which wouldn't be fixed by filtering and boiling.

Oh - edit to add - I wouldn't boil water unless I was going to use it immediately. Boiling it and then letting it cool is just a waste of fuel.

Second edit to give a thumbs up to suggestions about Kelly, Ghillie and similar. Whenever I go anywhere one of the first things that goes in the back of the Jeep is the Ghillie. About 1.5 litres is a good size for travel, I have a five litre stainless thing which in the summer heats almost all my hot water, even at home.

Third edit to add that road fuel is ridiculously expensive for cooking and heating.

 

[Glow_worm]

What I'm saying is that it *is* possible to be too fussy about things.

I'm with you there, but it does vary between person to person. For somebody living an outdoor lifestyle, probably regularly ingesting soil bacteria, maybe exposed to poultry or even just pets, there is likely more resistance than a city dweller who regularly sanitises their hands after touching anything communal.

I fit firmly into the first catagory- permanently grubby- but I still managed to pick up e-coli from a public tap which was the trigger for over a decade of autoimmune problems.

Your frog comments remind me of a Terry Pratchett quote:

'People have believed for hundreds of years that newts in a well mean that the water’s fresh and drinkable, and in all that time never asked themselves whether the newts got out to go to the lavatory'

 

[Jared]

Murky business. Berkey and the EPA.

Berkey system users have been asking Watermatters about the current debacle between Berkey and the EPA. Here is our perspective. Berkey was issued a Stop Sale Order by the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency USA) in December 2023 due to Berkey’s unregistered use of silver in Black Berkey...

www.watermatters.ca

There is British Berkefeld (ultimately owned by Katadyn Group) that makes similar products.

Doulton water filters and water filter systems | Doulton

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[Tengu]

I'm with you there, but it does vary between person to person. For somebody living an outdoor lifestyle, probably regularly ingesting soil bacteria, maybe exposed to poultry or even just pets, there is likely more resistance than a city dweller who regularly sanitises their hands after touching anything communal.

I fit firmly into the first catagory- permanently grubby- but I still managed to pick up e-coli from a public tap which was the trigger for over a decade of autoimmune problems.

Your frog comments remind me of a Terry Pratchett quote:

'People have believed for hundreds of years that newts in a well mean that the water’s fresh and drinkable, and in all that time never asked themselves whether the newts got out to go to the lavatory'

Yes, clean water is much, much better than dirty.

And you, yourself might be immune to your local bugs, but what if a friend visits who isnt?

 

[Dan00001]

Lifesaver make some good products.

Also, here is a good little series on water purification..

Backcountry Water Treatment

Share your videos with friends, family and the world

youtube.com

 

[Falstaff]

"For somebody living an outdoor lifestyle, probably regularly ingesting soil bacteria, maybe exposed to poultry or even just pets, there is likely more resistance than a city dweller"

I'd like this to be true but, ...I recall a doctor on Radio 4 saying that this was not true, and that there was in fact a lot of harm in potentially ingesting such things.

 

[Glow_worm]

I don't listen to the media but was in a friend's car when a doctor on the radio claimed gardeners were slightly healthier for ingesting small amounts of soil bacteria, for the same reasons that some strains of soil bacteria are available to purchase as probiotics.

Mind you, the radio is full of contradictions. How often the news runs: Item 1. Climate change is the biggest challenge society has faced since the sinking of the Lusitania etc etc. Item 2. The economy shrank by 0.02% last month, people aren't buying enough disposable rubbish from China, we're all doomed etc etc.....

 

[Laurentius]

"For somebody living an outdoor lifestyle, probably regularly ingesting soil bacteria, maybe exposed to poultry or even just pets, there is likely more resistance than a city dweller"

I'd like this to be true but, ...I recall a doctor on Radio 4 saying that this was not true, and that there was in fact a lot of harm in potentially ingesting such things.

Probably down to good genetics and survival of the fittest in the end. I have certainly been exposed to soil bacteria all my life, I not infrequently get small cuts when I am out and about and they don't get infected. I am also one of these people yet to get Covid inspite of the fact that I come within a technically vulnerable category and have come into close contact with people who have had Covid. My brother has had it, but me not. Wierd.