UK car / van buying

[Paul_B]

Just curious about strategies for finding your next vehicle. Are you an autotrader/gumtree/ebay type or a proper garage type? How far do you travel?

We're a local garage car shopper. TBH I've not owned many cars and they've mostly been bought from recommended sources. Basically cars I've owned have been bought from family, local satellite branch of local main dealer, a small local garage that specialises in buying ex fleet or military rental cars from auctions and the last one was from a local garage.

The last car was our worst choice of car yet so that's why I question our shopping strategy. It was a garage that seemed OK but has since shut down and another car sales company set up in that location. I think the older owner retired and sold out tbh not shutdown for other, dodgy reasons.

The other thing is we're looking for a large car / MPV (not SUV) or a medium van. What's a good sort of place to look for vans? Main dealers or independent commercial vehicle specialists? The big commercial garages or smaller local ones?

 

[Broch]

Mmmm… my car buying strategy has changed through life. In my youth I started buying from local adverts when I was prepared to do all the work myself - including clutch changes, gearbox swaps and engine rebuilds. Later, when I had less time due to work and kids, I'd buy from reputable but not franchise garages and try and get at least 6 months warranty. Then for quite a while I bought 6 month to 1 year old cars from the main dealers - by far the best value. Depending on the model you can get a sub 10K miles car with warranty left on it and the bulk of the depreciation taken off (including VAT).

I have always worked out the cost of a car over 3 years. A newer car does not end up costing a lot more than an older one because, if you've chosen the right model, the resale value is much higher. So, cost is price now plus repairs, tax, insurance and consumables less resale value. Do that calc objectively for each option and, sometimes, newer cars come out quite well.

Unless, of course, you start including cars that appreciate in value like my Series III

 

[Paul_B]

The thing with us (my partner and 6 year old) cars or vans are tools used to get from a to b. We are not bothered by looks in a vehicle. The other result of that attitude is cars tend to get marked shall we say. We use our cars so they get scratches or dents.

For example after getting the current car back from bodywork garage (claim against truck owner's insurer because our car was stationary in front of our house when the truck with grab hit it hard. After getting it back we went for a long weekend away. Before we got home it had been driven into a post trying to get it through a narrow gap. That mark is still on the car.

So that means any really new car or van will end up with lower end of value range when time to sell. Makes for a bigger incentive to run it into the ground I think. I don't think I get over a grand for any car I've sold. Last one got £950 trade in but I am sure the selling price reflected the fact it was being traded in at about £200+ over market value for its state.

 

[Paul_B]

I saw a 2018 vivaro biturbo van for about £16k when you add on VAT. 6 miles on the clock. IIRC about 140bhp diesel. I've seen them going for about that at 2014 registered sort of ages.

 

[Broch]

The thing with us (my partner and 6 year old) cars or vans are tools used to get from a to b. We are not bothered by looks in a vehicle. The other result of that attitude is cars tend to get marked shall we say. We use our cars so they get scratches or dents.

For example after getting the current car back from bodywork garage (claim against truck owner's insurer because our car was stationary in front of our house when the truck with grab hit it hard. After getting it back we went for a long weekend away. Before we got home it had been driven into a post trying to get it through a narrow gap. That mark is still on the car.

So that means any really new car or van will end up with lower end of value range when time to sell. Makes for a bigger incentive to run it into the ground I think. I don't think I get over a grand for any car I've sold. Last one got £950 trade in but I am sure the selling price reflected the fact it was being traded in at about £200+ over market value for its state.

Point taken
I have run cars into the ground as well.

 

[Fadcode]

There are many things to take into consideration before getting any car/van , for instance if you do low mileage each year and only use your car for long runs rarely, then a petrol car would be better than a diesel, would you be better off with a hatchback or a estate variant, do you need 4 doors rather than 3, etc etc.

Would a car based van be better? Do you need a big engine or a small one, a 1.6 diesel will not go up a steep hill as well as a 2.0 diesel, are there many hills around where you live?

It is at the moment a buyers market for used vehicles, especially vans , once you decide what vehicle you want do a bit of research have a look at the Owners Forums of the car/van in question, note the common faults, then when you come to buy you will have an idea of what to look for, if you think whatever you buy will get damaged, then buy one with damage it will be a lot cheaper, if a bit of damage is no bother to you, it will give you an edge when you are buying. make sure you check the MOT history of the car , its free and easy to do on the DVLA site https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-status, this will give you some idea of the work done to get through the MOT's if applicable.it will also indicate the mileage covered each year etc etc.

Car and Van Hire firms have some bargains, as they generally look after their fleet and change them regularly, think about the area the car is coming from, eg. I would prefer a car from Lincolnshire rather then one from Cornwall, as the wear would be less, less Hills to climb and neither place has motorways.
if you can take your time and make sure you get the one that suits you and your needs the best, most modern cars will last for many years if looked after its very rare to see a rusty car nowadays

And last but not least, if you are not sure, don't buy, if it seems too good to be true, then it probably isn't, the area where you live Lancashire is well know for bad car deals, ringed cars, two cars made into one, crash repairs botched, etc, etc,

 

[Janne]

Once I decided what cars I am interested in, ( I select a couple), I have a look, do my usual 'inspection', then test drive.

I go with the gut feeling too, not only of the car but of the seller.

Having said that, the last 4 vehicles we have bought we bought unseen, undriven. But that is because we live where we live, and the vehicles were either in Germany or UK.

 

[Paul_B]

North Lancashire bad for dodgy cars? Didn't know that. Buying from an independent dealership with their required warranty cover, doesn't that include a hpi check and other car history checks too. I thought that was now a requirement of car dealers?

 

[Fadcode]

I don't think HPI checks and Warrantys (except the standard guarantee) are obligatory but they are recommended, and if a car is not recorded as written off, it is possible for it to re-appear again, as well as the damaged ones that are up for sale on Evilbay, have a look at some of them, and ask who would buy them, Dealers do (I don't mean reputable franchised dealers) but your backstreet garages, they fix them up and then re-sell them, of course this is not Limited to Lancashire, but as a long time resident of that Area before I came down South, I could tell you a few stories believe me., I used to buy regularly from Car Auctions (BCA) until I found out they owned we-buy-any car/van, and they were buying cars from anyone despite their history, buying for 65% of their value, auctioning them with the buyers premium making up the difference and giving them a good profit, they have now been sold to an Investment group for £1.2billion, so shows how much money there is in second hand cars.

 

[Janne]

I have seen a few cars created from two heavily damaged cars. Front from one, rear from another.
Only sign was a brand new, very glossy paintjob.

Never buy a car that has slightly damp interior/carpets.
"just had a good was including interior".

I bought a such POS car once. Leaked around sunroof.
Rust under the carpet. badly rusted.

Learned my lesson!

Almost bought a Jap. import BMW 6 series M here a few years back. Low mileage. Beautiful. BIG engine.
Oil dipstick was rusty where it is inside the engine.
Car has been submerged in (sea ?) water .

 

[Paul_B]

Just been looking things up about buying from dealers. It seems you have the most rights out of all the sources of used cars but you've still got to take reasonable precautions.

The law requires them to carry out preparation on every car they sell. It's got to be as described fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality. They also have a responsibility to confirm the mileage is accurate apparently (source the AA).

There's no requirement to offer a warranty. In fact if there develops a problem with your new used car after buying and you claim under a warranty given with the sale it does affect your rights by delaying the point you can get a full refund.

As I understand it without a warranty or without using the given warranty the dealer has one chance to fix the issue. If any work they do in that first attempt at repair fails to solve the issue then you are able to get a refund (less a reasonable adjustment for wear and tear or use). This is the case if the fault showed itself between 30 days and 6 months. Under 30 days you can ask for a refund straight away. After 6 months you have to prove the fault was there when you bought the car.

The interesting thing about the 30 days to 6 month period is the fault is assumed to have been there when you bought it. It is up to the dealer to prove otherwise. IMHO up to 6 months the buyer seems to have a bit of power in that their assertion the fault was present at point of sale is taken as true. A presumption of truth in favour of the buyer.

Personally I will never buy from a private seller. I am unlikely to buy from an auction directly (but through a dealer who bought from an auction or possibly buy a japanese import bought on our behalf by an import specialist company is a possibility). Our preference is for a reputable independent dealer. A small local dealer with a good reputation but one that's not a main dealership or part of a chain. That is because they are usually the ones to sell a 4 to 5 year old car that's still good for its age. The main dealers generally prefer 6 months to 4 year old cars ime which are usual above my price bracket. Right now I might be considering a higher price bracket that might put me into main dealership territory. I'm not decided on that completely yet.

Right now I'm not sure whether to get our existing car fixed (heating and possibly the full climate control if not too expensive). Or to buy a van and spend more. The aim of the van is to gradually get it converted to a day van over time.

So I'm guessing it could cost up to a grand to fix the existing car's climate control. This is possibly more than the car is worth but it's a basically reliable car that could have several years life yet. If we did this we'd probably get a towbar and a cycle carrier to make it more user friendly.
The van idea is either a fairly new one for £10-13k or one a bit older for about £8k then immediately get it lined and insulated out. Perhaps with windows (if not already present) and second row of seats that can be used when driven. We need three seats minimum preferably 4 or 5 with full 3 point seatbelts.

The vehicle is a family vehicle so needs to be a low roof van up to about 2m external height and ok to drive about on a daily basis.

 

[Janne]

If you allow me:
Your existing car is ok except the heating/AC?
A AC repair might be more expensive than the value of the car?

Does the heating work or not? Warm air blowing?
Does the fan work, with or without the heat or cooling?

 

[Gaudette]

My advice would be to find out the top three vehicles in the reliability stats in the MPV/SUV category.

Then look privately for vehicles that have full service history.

When you find a vehicle find out the top 5 common faults and check if these have happened and if they have see if they have been dealt with.

Look at the person you are dealing with. This can tell you a lot.

Finally don’t be afraid to say no and never pay the asking price.

Good luck



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[moocher]

My last car was from a small time dealer but normally I buy privately , find a car your interested in read the reviews on honest John or Parker’s , find one that’s not had many owners and low mileage , get reg number and go on the mot check website (Dvla) ? Then you can see what it had failed on or serious advisories, for example I seen a Mazda 5 estate online today at a small time dealers looked nice straight bodywork not many owners under 130,000 miles , but looking online the mot history showed it had serious corrosion as advisories. All you need is the reg number

 

[Paul_B]

Checked the mot out on my own car. Useful to remind you of your annual mileage over the past few years.

The climate control worked well for over a year then started to become less efficient. Very good when it worked. Then the ac part of it failed but the heater and fan still worked. Then late last winter the heat sort of died but the fan was as strong as ever. It does warm up slightly but we're talking about after nearly an hour of driving.

Local garage that's got a very good reputation locally said there's two possible failures with our car model. It's been some time since the mechanic explained it so I've forgotten about it. Something about a pump linked to the heat exchange system that's difficult to access. The garage said it's the similar level of work as changing a timing belt takes.

The second potential failure is a switch or control unit that's located behind the dashboard. Like a lot with this SEAT nothing is easy. If it's this switch then the whole dashboard needs dismantling and that's many hours of work.

The mechanic said they usually look at the pump (first option) first but it's pretty much 50:50 which fault it will end up being. Or could be both. Whatever the issue it will cost a lot to find out. Possibly end up accessing the pump to find it's OK then having to put things back and move on to the dashboard job.

The cost of a repair is high but you're right it's not as high as a new car / van. However there's a few other issues. Doors that don't always lock with the others or it doesn't unlock (doesn't open from the outside but will open from the inside, but then it didn't even open from the inside for a few times). Then there's a few electrical issues.

Put simply we're half thinking of repairing the existing car but the climate control might not be the only thing needing to be fixed. The other option is a new vehicle. Current thinking is it's not worth replacing the car with another car so we'd replace. However if we find a van that interests us then it's worth replacing.

Funny enough I saw a t30 transporter with a recent conversion for £19k. I think that's a cheap price for a vw bus. Funnily enough a Toyota hiace and an elgrand with campervan conversions at the same price at the same garage. There's a converted granvia at 22k, beyond our budget. Hmmm! Could we really get a v dub?

https://www.qualitycampervans.com/u...rth-finance-available-preston-201710230574901

 

[Janne]

The fan blows, so that is good!
My solution would be - no repairs. Live with it.

Air con is a new addition, people drove cars for a very long time without them!
You do not need it. I live in a Maritime Tropical area, and three of our cars do not have AC.
Just crank the rear window open a centimeter and open the front fresh air vents.

 

[Paul_B]

Hmmm! No heater coming through and whilst it blows air out it's often cold and with whatever level of humidity it's in the air. The first cold, wet day followed by a really cold morning you get ice on both sides of the glass because the blower isn't able to completely remove condensation on the windscreen. It freezes when it gets cold.

Of you remember the old days of running your car for 20 minutes to clear the windscreen? Well consider what happens if you need an hour of driving to get any warm air out of the blower. 20 minutes of the car running has no effect. So now I have to run the car, scrape the ice of the outside and the inside of the windscreen and then wipe the remaining condensation off.

Tbh I'm probably driving off with the windscreen not completely clear. It takes a bit to clear completely. It's worse than the old days because even then you had heat being blown out by the fan.

 

[Janne]

Yep, remember!
I drove cars like that the first 10 years, in Sweden.

Ice only a couple of mornings in UK, 4 months in Sweden.

We used to have a fan attached to the dashboard, plugged in into the cigarette lighter.

People did with hardly any heat in the car for the first 80 years or so.
The last ‘modern’ car I had with crap heating was a VW beetle, ‘77.

My first Climate Control I had on a MB I bought new in 1998. First Air Con in 2002.

 

[Janne]

But of course, if you want to spend money on an old car, just do it!

I am a hobby car restorer, so throwing money away is a hobby for me!

 

[Paul_B]

Throwing money away isn't our thing. Although they don't call it disposable income for nothing.

It would be throwing money away on a van. Although getting a car that's not got heating issues, that's not got the odd electrical issue, that's not got dodgy locks and a few other niggles that you'd live with if they didn't combine with other issues to just annoy you.

There's one door that often locks when you lock all the doors but doesn't always unlock. Or it simply doesn't lock at all. There's more issues which I suspect could lead to safety concerns if they get worse.

It's annoying that mechanically it seems a sound car but the the modern car standard equipment that never existed when I was a kid (unless you bought a very expensive luxury car) are the things going wrong. Although heating and a working demister vents seem to have been standard if less effective that ac climate control and heated windscreens of modern cars.

Must admit I can't really remember being in our Morris traveller outside of the warmer months. Our second car at the time and I suspect it wasn't a good winter car. When I was about 18 a neighbourhood kid was doing a BTEC in automotive maintenance. As a project he was repairing a Morris traveller. Not sure how relevant to modern cars because it was more about woodwork and filler than mechanicals and metalwork.. Fun to watch it being repaired though.